1
00:00:09,440 --> 00:00:11,480
Have you any idea
what caused the fire yet?

2
00:00:11,560 --> 00:00:13,880
No, we have no idea,
we’re keeping very much an open mind.

3
00:00:13,960 --> 00:00:16,520
But it has been suggested
it may have been started deliberately.

4
00:00:16,600 --> 00:00:18,480
Well, that’s a possibility.

5
00:00:18,560 --> 00:00:23,360
The New Cross fire was started,
it was not an accident.

6
00:00:24,120 --> 00:00:28,760
This whole thing was
about youngsters being murdered.

7
00:00:28,840 --> 00:00:32,800
I just remember
kids burnt till they were pink.

8
00:00:32,880 --> 00:00:36,200
And a smell of burning flesh...

9
00:00:36,320 --> 00:00:37,920
that will go to my grave.

10
00:00:38,000 --> 00:00:40,760
The New Cross Fire,
it just shocked everybody.

11
00:00:40,840 --> 00:00:43,840
We could all relate, because
that could have been any one of us.

12
00:00:43,920 --> 00:00:47,480
You know, we were in parties all
the time, so the horror, you can imagine,

13
00:00:47,560 --> 00:00:49,760
the horror, it’s really frightening.

14
00:00:49,840 --> 00:00:52,280
When you went outside the house,

15
00:00:52,360 --> 00:00:56,360
your mind had to kind of
be a young person in a party

16
00:00:56,440 --> 00:00:58,400
and being burnt alive in a house

17
00:00:58,480 --> 00:01:01,640
and that of course,
just fuels more anger and more rage.

18
00:01:03,840 --> 00:01:08,000
Why haven’t parliament said anything?

19
00:01:08,080 --> 00:01:10,440
Children have been burnt.

20
00:01:10,520 --> 00:01:13,840
Not West Indians, Black British!

21
00:01:13,920 --> 00:01:15,920
That is what I want said!

22
00:01:16,920 --> 00:01:18,800
They are burning our children!

23
00:01:37,560 --> 00:01:40,240
Our people united
We'll never be defeated

24
00:01:40,320 --> 00:01:43,240
Our people united
We'll never be defeated

25
00:01:43,320 --> 00:01:45,200
-What do we want?
- Freedom!

26
00:01:45,280 --> 00:01:47,280
My name is Christopher Icha

27
00:01:47,360 --> 00:01:50,280
In 1981, I was 16.

28
00:01:50,360 --> 00:01:53,800
and I remember going to college
and somebody came and said,

29
00:01:53,880 --> 00:01:56,280
"There's a march going on
for the New Cross fire."

30
00:01:57,560 --> 00:02:00,560
Instantly, we all came out
of our lessons,

31
00:02:00,640 --> 00:02:02,040
jumped on the bus,

32
00:02:03,400 --> 00:02:06,280
sea of Black people was there already.

33
00:02:06,360 --> 00:02:08,720
Today, after weeks
of growing resentment

34
00:02:08,800 --> 00:02:11,800
at what is seen as
police failure to bring charges,

35
00:02:11,880 --> 00:02:14,600
Black groups staged
a protest march through London

36
00:02:14,720 --> 00:02:16,400
It was an eye opener.

37
00:02:16,440 --> 00:02:20,320
That’s where my
political life really began.

38
00:02:20,400 --> 00:02:22,560
Was the first march I ever went on.

39
00:02:33,400 --> 00:02:37,560
I grew up in Kennington,
which is an area about a mile and a half,

40
00:02:37,600 --> 00:02:39,440
maybe two miles from Brixton.

41
00:02:41,800 --> 00:02:44,800
We had a sound system,
we had a group of friends,

42
00:02:45,880 --> 00:02:50,320
and most Saturdays, we’d be playing
out on the street to test them,

43
00:02:50,400 --> 00:02:51,560
stringing up the sound.

44
00:02:51,640 --> 00:02:54,560
I was like... I was the technician guy,
yeah.

45
00:02:54,640 --> 00:02:58,400
So I’d be soldering wires together,
and that was our life.

46
00:03:02,640 --> 00:03:06,000
Loads of fun.
The sound system days were the best fun

47
00:03:06,120 --> 00:03:10,760
You’re enjoying yourself,
you’re not having to focus

48
00:03:10,840 --> 00:03:13,720
about this outside shadow world.

49
00:03:17,200 --> 00:03:19,200
Kennington was a very racist area.

50
00:03:19,280 --> 00:03:21,200
You know, "Niggers go home."

51
00:03:21,280 --> 00:03:22,680
NF on the walls.

52
00:03:23,840 --> 00:03:25,720
You saw that everywhere.

53
00:03:25,800 --> 00:03:28,720
Even the little children would sing songs,

54
00:03:28,800 --> 00:03:31,600
"Nig nog gollywog,
go back to Brixton."

55
00:03:31,680 --> 00:03:34,800
That’s how I found out what Brixton was,
from that song they used to sing.

56
00:03:34,880 --> 00:03:37,920
"Nig nog gollywog,
go back to Brixton."

57
00:03:40,960 --> 00:03:42,960
My name is Sheldon Thomas.

58
00:03:43,080 --> 00:03:46,680
Me and Chris met in Kennington,
and he was seven, I was six.

59
00:03:46,760 --> 00:03:50,680
We were a close knit family,
all of us were first generation,

60
00:03:50,760 --> 00:03:52,200
born to west Indian parents,

61
00:03:52,280 --> 00:03:57,160
and most of us had suffered
some form of racial abuse as kids.

62
00:03:57,240 --> 00:03:59,600
So we could all understand each other

63
00:03:59,680 --> 00:04:01,600
because of what we was going through.

64
00:04:02,520 --> 00:04:04,440
We lived in a block of flats...

65
00:04:04,520 --> 00:04:08,200
and they were being redeveloped,
'cause they were falling apart basically.

66
00:04:10,680 --> 00:04:13,120
So we all kind of moved out
at the same time.

67
00:04:15,160 --> 00:04:18,680
Moving to Brixton was like
moving to a whole new country

68
00:04:18,760 --> 00:04:21,320
that was like,
not even a country, a galaxy.

69
00:04:21,360 --> 00:04:23,680
It was like moving to a whole new planet.

70
00:04:23,760 --> 00:04:25,920
It was completely different.

71
00:04:30,240 --> 00:04:32,240
Everything was colorful.

72
00:04:32,920 --> 00:04:34,800
There was music everywhere.

73
00:04:36,520 --> 00:04:38,880
And everybody spoke with
a Jamaican accent.

74
00:04:40,360 --> 00:04:44,240
It was just so uplifting.
You didn’t have to... hide.

75
00:04:44,360 --> 00:04:47,080
I didn’t have to run
no gauntlet no more.

76
00:04:49,920 --> 00:04:53,640
Brixton, where more than
20,000 West Indians now live

77
00:04:53,720 --> 00:04:56,040
It’s always been
a flourishing trade center,

78
00:04:56,120 --> 00:05:00,360
and an area, which today, has all
the color you’d see in a Caribbean market.

79
00:05:05,120 --> 00:05:07,040
My first memories of Brixton Market,

80
00:05:07,120 --> 00:05:10,680
well, um, I had to have a friend with me
to identify what foods are what

81
00:05:10,760 --> 00:05:13,200
because me coming from
the children’s home in Surrey,

82
00:05:13,240 --> 00:05:15,880
I sometimes...
I didn’t know what a yam was

83
00:05:16,000 --> 00:05:19,240
or a green banana was
or a dasheen was.

84
00:05:19,360 --> 00:05:21,760
The matoke comes from West Africa

85
00:05:21,800 --> 00:05:24,720
right, but they grow yam
and that out there,

86
00:05:24,800 --> 00:05:27,440
and yam, green bananas...

87
00:05:27,520 --> 00:05:30,640
okra. You know, okra is a thing
that you put in your dinner.

88
00:05:31,160 --> 00:05:35,160
They have a saying
that it takes a village to raise a child.

89
00:05:35,240 --> 00:05:37,800
And I was very much part of that village.

90
00:05:42,600 --> 00:05:45,600
My name is Ros Griffiths, and in 1981,

91
00:05:45,680 --> 00:05:48,560
I was about 15 coming onto 16.

92
00:05:48,640 --> 00:05:51,520
Brixton is where I became of age.

93
00:05:57,560 --> 00:05:59,760
Growing up on a council estate,

94
00:05:59,840 --> 00:06:02,760
it was vibrant, there were people
that looked like me.

95
00:06:02,840 --> 00:06:05,960
I could play out with my friends,
we had fun.

96
00:06:07,640 --> 00:06:10,600
One thing for sure,
morning, noon, and night,

97
00:06:10,680 --> 00:06:11,880
reggae music would be played.

98
00:06:11,960 --> 00:06:15,320
Leave us alone

99
00:06:15,400 --> 00:06:18,400
Ya must come out to light

100
00:06:19,920 --> 00:06:22,520
When I first heard
"Could You Be Loved" by Bob Marley,

101
00:06:22,600 --> 00:06:26,440
for me, that made me
reflect back on my own life

102
00:06:26,520 --> 00:06:29,240
and what I had experienced
all throughout my childhood.

103
00:06:29,320 --> 00:06:30,520
Could I be loved?

104
00:06:33,680 --> 00:06:36,440
But then I’d be up again, you know.

105
00:06:36,520 --> 00:06:39,480
bouncin' on the street,
feeling confident again.

106
00:06:39,560 --> 00:06:42,920
"You know what? I'm valuable.
I can be loved."

107
00:06:43,000 --> 00:06:45,520
You know, it was very important
for me, that song.

108
00:06:47,360 --> 00:06:51,120
You're thinking is not right

109
00:06:51,200 --> 00:06:54,200
At the time, I was trying to figure out

110
00:06:54,280 --> 00:06:56,960
what kind of woman
I needed to go forward and be.

111
00:06:57,040 --> 00:07:00,280
So I started to listen to the message.

112
00:07:00,360 --> 00:07:03,560
And you may stumble too

113
00:07:03,640 --> 00:07:07,600
Bob Marley,
his music, his words,

114
00:07:07,680 --> 00:07:10,680
it was all about
knowing where you’re coming from...

115
00:07:10,760 --> 00:07:14,760
in terms of who you are,
as... as a people.

116
00:07:15,480 --> 00:07:18,160
For many Black boys at that time,

117
00:07:18,240 --> 00:07:21,440
we were trying to find,
"Where are we going to fit in?"

118
00:07:21,520 --> 00:07:25,200
And that’s the reason why
Brixton became so prominent to us.

119
00:07:25,280 --> 00:07:28,040
Because we fit in to Brixton,

120
00:07:28,120 --> 00:07:30,880
the whole thinking of Jamaican life.

121
00:07:32,720 --> 00:07:36,360
We squatted
a Victorian town house in Mail Road,

122
00:07:36,440 --> 00:07:38,240
which is parallel with Railton Road.

123
00:07:38,960 --> 00:07:42,200
When we moved there,
Brixton was a poor neighborhood.

124
00:07:42,280 --> 00:07:45,480
it was a rundown neighborhood,
it was an immigrant neighborhood.

125
00:07:45,560 --> 00:07:48,240
In my social life,
if I said I lived in Brixton,

126
00:07:48,320 --> 00:07:50,920
they’d be eyebrows raised.

127
00:07:55,040 --> 00:07:57,800
For these young people,
life on the streets of London is tough

128
00:07:57,880 --> 00:08:00,200
and view outsiders,
particularly the police,

129
00:08:00,280 --> 00:08:01,640
with deep suspicion.

130
00:08:01,720 --> 00:08:04,440
They think of Railton Road,
in the heart of Brixton,

131
00:08:04,520 --> 00:08:07,200
quite literally,
as the frontline in a war zone.

132
00:08:07,280 --> 00:08:10,760
Outside tensions bring
the Black community together there.

133
00:08:20,200 --> 00:08:22,120
Railton Road was called the front line,

134
00:08:22,200 --> 00:08:27,160
I think, because it was a place of...
resistance.

135
00:08:28,600 --> 00:08:30,200
You felt when you
went down the front line

136
00:08:30,280 --> 00:08:33,760
that you were very much
kind of in a Black stronghold.

137
00:08:33,840 --> 00:08:35,960
When you’re on the front line,
you feel safe.

138
00:08:36,040 --> 00:08:39,320
You know, they feel together,
they feel like this is their home

139
00:08:39,400 --> 00:08:42,640
There is no way that anybody's gonna
take it away from them.

140
00:08:42,760 --> 00:08:45,240
So the weed was there,
the Jamaicans was there,

141
00:08:45,320 --> 00:08:48,040
the bars were there,
and they had the club...

142
00:08:48,120 --> 00:08:49,400
Shepherds.

143
00:08:56,520 --> 00:09:00,400
Every Wednesday, every Friday,
sound system... you would play there,

144
00:09:00,480 --> 00:09:01,520
so we’d always be there.

145
00:09:02,760 --> 00:09:05,040
Um... darkened spot.

146
00:09:05,120 --> 00:09:09,160
Two rooms, chockablock,
sweat pouring out the place.

147
00:09:10,440 --> 00:09:14,760
Tune...
My light, Gregory Isaacs!

148
00:09:20,080 --> 00:09:22,760
Yeah, man, that’s... that's what
I'm saying, man.

149
00:09:22,880 --> 00:09:25,160
Can you imagine the vibe,
the vibe there,

150
00:09:25,240 --> 00:09:28,400
the music, the food,
and you’re crabbing down with your girl.

151
00:09:30,840 --> 00:09:32,960
"Night Nurse," oh, we loved that song.

152
00:09:33,040 --> 00:09:34,720
That was called a rub down song.

153
00:09:34,760 --> 00:09:37,360
A case of emergency

154
00:09:38,240 --> 00:09:41,880
By the name of Gregory

155
00:09:42,000 --> 00:09:44,280
One night we was to go on a raid,

156
00:09:44,360 --> 00:09:46,840
there was illegal blues party.

157
00:09:46,880 --> 00:09:51,640
They were illegal, in so much as
people got charged for alcohol.

158
00:09:51,760 --> 00:09:55,160
This was regarded,
almost as like crime of the century,

159
00:09:55,240 --> 00:09:57,600
and had to be stamped down upon.

160
00:09:57,720 --> 00:10:01,200
So we were briefed as to what to do.

161
00:10:01,280 --> 00:10:05,640
Which quite frankly, was just go
and break up or smash up this party,

162
00:10:05,760 --> 00:10:11,080
and I was told to stick with
a PC and not leave his side.

163
00:10:11,160 --> 00:10:15,520
This is... this is nigh on
my first experience of policing.

164
00:10:16,840 --> 00:10:18,520
-So we stormed in.
-

165
00:10:19,520 --> 00:10:21,240
It was pandemonium.

166
00:10:21,320 --> 00:10:26,160
I saw little bags of cannabis
being ditched by people onto the floor.

167
00:10:26,240 --> 00:10:30,520
And I saw police officers attributing them
to whoever they fancied.

168
00:10:30,640 --> 00:10:33,080
"You’re nicked," and
dragging them out.

169
00:10:33,160 --> 00:10:37,360
My PC, from inside his truncheon pocket,

170
00:10:37,440 --> 00:10:39,280
he pulled out a knitting needle.

171
00:10:39,360 --> 00:10:42,760
And then he went up to
the speakers and pierced it

172
00:10:42,840 --> 00:10:46,120
right through the center of one speaker,

173
00:10:46,200 --> 00:10:50,320
went to the other big speaker
and stuck it straight in.

174
00:10:50,400 --> 00:10:52,840
That would have rendered
the speakers irreparable.

175
00:10:52,880 --> 00:10:57,760
He then stamped on just about
each and every record, one by one.

176
00:10:57,840 --> 00:11:01,840
Slamming his size tens
down on to the records.

177
00:11:03,400 --> 00:11:06,520
Well, for me in my hostel,
in Elm Park,

178
00:11:06,640 --> 00:11:08,280
which is opposite Brixton prison,

179
00:11:08,360 --> 00:11:10,160
there was the house party.

180
00:11:11,400 --> 00:11:14,960
Some neighbor complained about the noise
and the police came.

181
00:11:15,640 --> 00:11:20,440
They stormed in and
arrested not just me, but many others.

182
00:11:21,640 --> 00:11:23,320
I remember sitting in a cell.

183
00:11:23,400 --> 00:11:25,800
And the owner of the sound system,

184
00:11:25,880 --> 00:11:27,320
he was a man called Trevor.

185
00:11:27,400 --> 00:11:29,200
He was in a cell next to me.

186
00:11:30,120 --> 00:11:31,840
I mean, I am fresh to Brixton,

187
00:11:31,920 --> 00:11:34,600
so I'm thinking,
"Okay, they might want to scare us,

188
00:11:34,680 --> 00:11:36,440
they might want to intimidate us."

189
00:11:38,600 --> 00:11:40,800
And Trevor was a big guy.

190
00:11:40,880 --> 00:11:44,640
He was a big guy, I have no idea
how many officers came to assault him.

191
00:11:47,240 --> 00:11:49,120
The sound I heard from him,

192
00:11:49,200 --> 00:11:50,320
his voice...

193
00:11:50,960 --> 00:11:54,640
raging and flinching and wailing in pain.

194
00:11:56,880 --> 00:11:59,760
It's scarring to experience that.

195
00:12:02,000 --> 00:12:03,960
Never forgotten it,
and I don’t think I ever will,

196
00:12:04,040 --> 00:12:07,520
you know, that was my first experience
of real police violence.

197
00:12:10,360 --> 00:12:11,440
-

198
00:12:14,520 --> 00:12:17,800
Heavy load now

199
00:12:17,880 --> 00:12:19,520
Riot-equipped police are descending on

200
00:12:19,600 --> 00:12:21,120
the West Indian community in Bristol

201
00:12:21,200 --> 00:12:22,520
to try and quell what is probably

202
00:12:22,600 --> 00:12:25,120
the worst street violence
the city has ever seen

203
00:12:25,200 --> 00:12:27,000
The trouble began mid-afternoon

204
00:12:27,080 --> 00:12:29,680
when an angry crowd hurling
bricks, bottles, slates,

205
00:12:29,760 --> 00:12:31,360
anything they could lay their hands on.

206
00:12:31,440 --> 00:12:33,320
Police had come to raid a café

207
00:12:33,400 --> 00:12:36,560
but the police decided to pull out
and abandon the area.

208
00:12:44,040 --> 00:12:47,560
After the riots in Bristol,
it made people think

209
00:12:47,640 --> 00:12:50,160
that wow, that the police
actually withdrew,

210
00:12:50,240 --> 00:12:55,040
so if something kicks off in Brixton,
would they do the same?

211
00:12:55,120 --> 00:12:56,360
When you come down in such a force,

212
00:12:56,480 --> 00:12:59,000
it doesn’t look like you’re out
to raid a café right?

213
00:12:59,080 --> 00:13:01,080
And you put the wrong
impression on people.

214
00:13:01,160 --> 00:13:03,640
The point being emphasized
over and over again

215
00:13:03,720 --> 00:13:06,880
is that last night’s rampage
was not a race riot.

216
00:13:06,960 --> 00:13:10,320
It was a boiling over of
Black anger against the police.

217
00:13:10,400 --> 00:13:14,280
We are angry about it,
and what I am saying is not a local thing.

218
00:13:15,240 --> 00:13:18,360
It’s a conspiracy with the government,
and the police.

219
00:13:19,680 --> 00:13:20,840
We were aware that there was

220
00:13:20,920 --> 00:13:24,160
a growing hostility to the police,
that we did expect to blow.

221
00:13:24,240 --> 00:13:27,560
So Bristol for us,
was a sign that that hostility

222
00:13:27,640 --> 00:13:29,320
was really coming to the fore.

223
00:13:33,360 --> 00:13:35,800
And then I think in '81,

224
00:13:35,880 --> 00:13:38,440
the atmosphere in Brixton
after New Cross,

225
00:13:38,520 --> 00:13:40,960
feelings were running extremely high.

226
00:13:41,040 --> 00:13:42,960
It's understood the report rules out,

227
00:13:43,040 --> 00:13:44,520
a racial motive for the blaze

228
00:13:44,600 --> 00:13:47,800
and it's unlikely that there will be
any prosecutions.

229
00:13:47,880 --> 00:13:49,360
We all know why.

230
00:13:49,480 --> 00:13:51,320
The police had round up Black youth

231
00:13:51,440 --> 00:13:54,520
in order to negate
the racist attack theory.

232
00:13:54,600 --> 00:13:58,800
And that fuels more anger
about how this fire was being treated

233
00:13:58,880 --> 00:14:01,760
and how we as Black people
were being treated within the society.

234
00:14:01,840 --> 00:14:05,400
The New Cross fire
happened on January the 18th.

235
00:14:05,480 --> 00:14:07,480
And on the 13th of March,

236
00:14:08,560 --> 00:14:11,920
the coroner told us
that he was going to hold an inquest,

237
00:14:12,000 --> 00:14:14,000
in the interests of racial harmony.

238
00:14:14,560 --> 00:14:16,040
This is madness.

239
00:14:16,120 --> 00:14:18,040
How can we hold an inquest,
we haven’t invest...

240
00:14:18,120 --> 00:14:20,240
you know,
we’ve not fully investigated this.

241
00:14:20,320 --> 00:14:22,000
You made the case come forward

242
00:14:22,080 --> 00:14:23,920
and say for racial harmony.

243
00:14:24,000 --> 00:14:26,000
Racial who? How?

244
00:14:26,080 --> 00:14:28,280
The coroner called in the inquest early.

245
00:14:28,400 --> 00:14:30,240
I think it was an absolute
knee-jerk reaction

246
00:14:30,320 --> 00:14:31,800
to the Black people's day of action.

247
00:14:31,880 --> 00:14:33,760
It's politics, isn't it?

248
00:14:33,840 --> 00:14:35,920
Thousands have been
mobilized on this issue.

249
00:14:36,000 --> 00:14:38,920
We need to be shown to be doing something.
We better get on with the inquest.

250
00:14:39,640 --> 00:14:41,680
I was laying in a hospital bed,

251
00:14:41,760 --> 00:14:45,520
one leg cocked up in the air,
two arms hanging off the side of the bed.

252
00:14:45,600 --> 00:14:47,480
Can’t do anything.
I can’t go on these marches,

253
00:14:47,560 --> 00:14:48,920
I can’t help anybody.

254
00:14:49,000 --> 00:14:50,880
How did I feel about it?

255
00:14:51,640 --> 00:14:54,120
I was mad. I was angry.

256
00:14:57,440 --> 00:14:58,600
In the past few years,

257
00:14:58,680 --> 00:15:02,240
many people in London have warned
of an increasingly hostile relationship

258
00:15:02,360 --> 00:15:05,480
between the police
and the Black and Asian communities.

259
00:15:07,040 --> 00:15:08,920
The biggest problem is sus,

260
00:15:09,000 --> 00:15:11,200
the controversial
suspected persons charge,

261
00:15:11,280 --> 00:15:15,840
which allows police to arrest anyone
they suspect is about to commit a crime.

262
00:15:15,920 --> 00:15:18,880
Sus gave the police carte blanche really,

263
00:15:18,960 --> 00:15:22,600
and you could just feel... I mean,
you could feel the... in the air,

264
00:15:22,680 --> 00:15:25,040
that it was getting tenser and tenser.

265
00:15:25,520 --> 00:15:27,480
Nothing to say!
-Okay.

266
00:15:27,560 --> 00:15:30,160
If a police officer
calls a black man a nigger,

267
00:15:30,240 --> 00:15:31,920
shouldn’t he be dismissed?

268
00:15:32,000 --> 00:15:34,840
No! Why should... No. Indeed not.

269
00:15:34,920 --> 00:15:37,160
Like everything else, why should he...

270
00:15:37,240 --> 00:15:39,640
Why should he be dismissed
for calling him a nigger?

271
00:15:39,720 --> 00:15:41,320
Because it’s a term of abuse.

272
00:15:41,400 --> 00:15:43,000
That’s a matter of opinion.

273
00:15:44,200 --> 00:15:45,880
Here was the Metropolitan police,

274
00:15:45,960 --> 00:15:49,560
in the aftermath of what had happened
in Bristol the year before,

275
00:15:49,640 --> 00:15:51,680
thinking that what happened there

276
00:15:51,760 --> 00:15:54,240
couldn’t happen successfully in London

277
00:15:54,360 --> 00:15:58,440
days after this massive march
of Black people,

278
00:15:58,520 --> 00:16:00,720
out of racist over-confidence,

279
00:16:00,800 --> 00:16:04,640
mounting this operation,
named in celebration

280
00:16:04,720 --> 00:16:06,760
of a racist Margaret Thatcher speech.

281
00:16:06,840 --> 00:16:10,440
This country might be rather swamped
by people with a different culture.

282
00:16:10,520 --> 00:16:14,040
As Operation Swamp
was largely a stop and search operation,

283
00:16:14,120 --> 00:16:18,360
whereby every officer
that could be cobbled together,

284
00:16:18,440 --> 00:16:21,480
was put out on to the streets of Brixton

285
00:16:21,560 --> 00:16:26,440
with the instructions that if it moved,
stop it, and search it.

286
00:16:26,520 --> 00:16:30,640
Our own view
about the control of street crime

287
00:16:30,720 --> 00:16:33,800
is as many officers
on the street as possible.

288
00:16:33,880 --> 00:16:37,040
It was almost like a show of strength.

289
00:16:37,120 --> 00:16:41,320
They said, "Whatever you think you are

290
00:16:41,400 --> 00:16:46,800
whatever you think your reasons
for demanding justice,

291
00:16:46,880 --> 00:16:48,560
we are here to say that, you know,

292
00:16:48,640 --> 00:16:50,680
we can do what we want with you."

293
00:16:50,760 --> 00:16:54,040
It was as if the...
the whole Black community

294
00:16:54,920 --> 00:16:58,680
was back against the wall, was on trial.

295
00:16:59,560 --> 00:17:02,120
At the height of Operation Swamp,

296
00:17:02,240 --> 00:17:05,160
there was one particular day
I was stopped three times.

297
00:17:05,960 --> 00:17:08,920
The first time was when
I walked down Brixton Hill.

298
00:17:09,000 --> 00:17:11,440
I was asked to empty my pockets.

299
00:17:11,520 --> 00:17:12,800
For no reason.

300
00:17:13,480 --> 00:17:16,560
They searched me.
I went about my business.

301
00:17:16,640 --> 00:17:21,000
I signed on at the dole office.
I came out. Then I was stopped again.

302
00:17:21,080 --> 00:17:24,920
They said they was looking for someone
who fitted my description

303
00:17:25,000 --> 00:17:27,560
And then I was stopped again.

304
00:17:27,680 --> 00:17:30,760
I think I just looked into a jewelry shop
or... or something,

305
00:17:30,800 --> 00:17:32,080
just looking at jewelry.

306
00:17:32,200 --> 00:17:34,000
They said that I was acting suspiciously.

307
00:17:35,280 --> 00:17:36,480
Suspiciously? What?

308
00:17:36,560 --> 00:17:38,800
I can’t even look into a jeweler's window?

309
00:17:39,720 --> 00:17:43,920
When people talk about
Operation Swamp, sus, and all of that,

310
00:17:44,000 --> 00:17:48,520
what people are failing to understand
is the brutality that comes with that.

311
00:17:48,560 --> 00:17:51,960
People think it's, "Oh, you know,
I just want to check your pockets,"

312
00:17:52,040 --> 00:17:53,760
It wasn't like that.

313
00:17:53,800 --> 00:17:56,680
When they stopped you,
there was a punch first.

314
00:17:59,480 --> 00:18:02,720
And that’s when I realized this is war.

315
00:18:02,800 --> 00:18:06,560
I am going to go out of my way
to hurt you.

316
00:18:12,000 --> 00:18:14,000
My name is Stephen Margiotta.

317
00:18:14,080 --> 00:18:18,000
In 1981,
I was a probation police officer

318
00:18:18,080 --> 00:18:19,880
at Brixton Police Station.

319
00:18:19,960 --> 00:18:24,160
I had been there about six months,
after I finished at Hendon.

320
00:18:24,240 --> 00:18:26,200
-It was warm, I remember that much

321
00:18:26,280 --> 00:18:28,440
because I was in shirt sleeves
most of the week.

322
00:18:29,640 --> 00:18:31,920
Just like any other day,
going to work.

323
00:18:32,000 --> 00:18:33,920
I just called up
and accepted a call of, um,

324
00:18:34,000 --> 00:18:37,040
criminal damage further down Railton Road.

325
00:18:38,440 --> 00:18:40,720
So that day, from the afternoon,

326
00:18:40,800 --> 00:18:41,920
all we talked about was Shepherds

327
00:18:42,000 --> 00:18:43,920
because we’re all
dance hall people, innit?

328
00:18:45,160 --> 00:18:48,160
So on the Friday night,
we was going to go loosen up.

329
00:18:48,240 --> 00:18:50,960
I made my way down to Railton Road.

330
00:18:51,040 --> 00:18:52,720
And then,
I think I heard someone shouting.

331
00:18:52,800 --> 00:18:53,960
And I looked back down the road

332
00:18:54,040 --> 00:18:56,200
and I saw this guy
come running towards me.

333
00:18:56,280 --> 00:19:00,920
Quite certain by even
my naïve experience

334
00:19:01,000 --> 00:19:02,800
that he was being
chased by somebody.

335
00:19:02,880 --> 00:19:05,960
And I thought this can’t be right,

336
00:19:06,040 --> 00:19:08,920
and I could see his shirt lifted up
and he had a huge...

337
00:19:09,000 --> 00:19:10,640
huge gash in his back.

338
00:19:10,720 --> 00:19:12,080
It was bleeding.

339
00:19:12,200 --> 00:19:14,520
So, "Oh, bugger, what’s happened here?"

340
00:19:14,560 --> 00:19:15,960
I tried to talk to him.

341
00:19:16,080 --> 00:19:18,160
But I was immediately surrounded by people

342
00:19:18,240 --> 00:19:20,560
asking me what I was doing
and why I was doing it,

343
00:19:20,680 --> 00:19:21,800
and what’s he done?

344
00:19:21,920 --> 00:19:24,080
And I got on the radio
and I called the station,

345
00:19:24,160 --> 00:19:26,520
and I said that this guy
was seriously hurt.

346
00:19:26,560 --> 00:19:29,720
Unless someone gets to
him very soon, he’s going to die

347
00:19:29,800 --> 00:19:31,400
because he’s losing so much blood.

348
00:19:32,560 --> 00:19:34,400
Uh, and that was it, he was off again.

349
00:19:34,480 --> 00:19:36,480
I couldn’t chase him anymore.

350
00:19:37,320 --> 00:19:39,440
We’re coming out
of Shepherds Youth Center,

351
00:19:39,520 --> 00:19:41,560
walking down Atlantic Road.

352
00:19:41,680 --> 00:19:44,080
and then that’s when we saw the police

353
00:19:44,160 --> 00:19:48,080
surrounding a Black guy...
who had been stabbed.

354
00:19:49,280 --> 00:19:53,480
and for us, the argument was
take him to the hospital.

355
00:19:54,320 --> 00:19:56,080
I can’t remember how long later it was

356
00:19:56,200 --> 00:20:00,240
and the van unit called up and said that
the van had been surrounded by people

357
00:20:00,320 --> 00:20:02,720
and assuming they were doing him harm,

358
00:20:02,800 --> 00:20:04,560
greater harm than had already
been done to him.

359
00:20:05,800 --> 00:20:07,920
And then they asked for urgent assistance,

360
00:20:08,040 --> 00:20:09,640
and, uh...

361
00:20:10,320 --> 00:20:12,080
then it all kicked off from there.

362
00:20:14,080 --> 00:20:17,280
In the late afternoon,
an urgent assistance call came up.

363
00:20:17,320 --> 00:20:20,320
Railton Road.
Yeah, we’ll have a lump of that.

364
00:20:21,480 --> 00:20:25,280
When we got there,
it was bit of a chaotic scene.

365
00:20:25,320 --> 00:20:27,800
There were some angry people.

366
00:20:27,880 --> 00:20:31,000
Nobody was really clear
what was going on.

367
00:20:31,080 --> 00:20:33,000
"Leave him alone. Blah, blah, blah."

368
00:20:33,080 --> 00:20:35,200
You know, that kind of shouting thing.

369
00:20:35,280 --> 00:20:38,040
But then somebody threw a brick.

370
00:20:39,680 --> 00:20:41,440
And then I threw a brick.

371
00:20:42,160 --> 00:20:43,760
And then we all threw bricks.

372
00:20:43,800 --> 00:20:46,280
Things started getting slung at us,

373
00:20:46,320 --> 00:20:50,080
bits of rubble,
the occasional half a house brick.

374
00:20:50,200 --> 00:20:52,320
A little skirmish took place.

375
00:20:52,400 --> 00:20:54,240
Nothing serious, I would say.

376
00:20:54,320 --> 00:20:56,720
But that’s when I think
people started saying,

377
00:20:56,800 --> 00:20:59,280
"We are going to have to do something,
we can’t have this no more."

378
00:21:00,960 --> 00:21:04,640
Not very long into this,
a call came up,

379
00:21:04,720 --> 00:21:07,880
which was issued from
Brixton police station,

380
00:21:08,000 --> 00:21:13,080
that told us to patrol
in a convoy in a never-ending loop,

381
00:21:13,160 --> 00:21:17,040
which went down Railton Road,
back down a bit of Brixton High Street,

382
00:21:17,080 --> 00:21:18,400
-and round again.
-

383
00:21:18,480 --> 00:21:22,720
And we did that,
quite literally, for hours.

384
00:21:22,800 --> 00:21:26,040
At one point, a lady flags us down.

385
00:21:26,080 --> 00:21:27,560
-So we stop.
-

386
00:21:27,680 --> 00:21:30,760
One of our colleagues
opened the back door,

387
00:21:30,800 --> 00:21:34,560
and she slid a crate of light ales.

388
00:21:34,640 --> 00:21:37,640
Turns out she was the landlady of a pub.

389
00:21:37,720 --> 00:21:40,720
She said, "There you go boys,
thank you very much for what you’re doing,

390
00:21:40,800 --> 00:21:42,240
have a drink on me."

391
00:21:42,320 --> 00:21:44,440
"Thank you very much," we thought.

392
00:21:45,480 --> 00:21:47,480
And off we went again.

393
00:21:47,560 --> 00:21:49,320
Round and round and round.

394
00:21:49,440 --> 00:21:52,560
Antagonizing people endlessly.

395
00:21:57,400 --> 00:22:00,240
The violence had broken out
in Brixton in south London,

396
00:22:00,320 --> 00:22:03,080
when about a hundred
Black youths surrounded policeman,

397
00:22:03,160 --> 00:22:05,680
questioning a youth who had been
stabbed in the back.

398
00:22:05,760 --> 00:22:07,960
Community leaders
have complained of tension

399
00:22:08,040 --> 00:22:11,760
between Brixton’s Black community
and the police for several years now.

400
00:22:12,920 --> 00:22:16,040
That morning, on the 11th, I got up early.

401
00:22:16,120 --> 00:22:20,320
And I walked down to Brixton
from about 9:00

402
00:22:20,400 --> 00:22:22,680
and even from that point in the morning,

403
00:22:22,760 --> 00:22:24,720
there was an increased
presence of the police.

404
00:22:24,800 --> 00:22:27,920
Things were getting serious,
they were everywhere now.

405
00:22:30,240 --> 00:22:33,280
It was Saturday morning,
I went into work as usual

406
00:22:33,360 --> 00:22:36,360
and was told there had been
some trouble overnight in Brixton

407
00:22:36,440 --> 00:22:39,680
and I was sent down there
with a photographer, Neil Libert.

408
00:22:40,520 --> 00:22:44,160
When we got there, you could sense
that trouble was in the air.

409
00:22:44,240 --> 00:22:46,160
There were lots of police on the street.

410
00:22:46,240 --> 00:22:50,120
And quite a lot of young men
looking at them suspiciously

411
00:22:50,200 --> 00:22:52,280
There was a sort of standoff,
if you like.

412
00:22:52,360 --> 00:22:54,520
I think it was round about lunchtime

413
00:22:54,600 --> 00:22:59,160
that I saw a wave of people
moving towards Atlantic Road.

414
00:22:59,240 --> 00:23:01,880
And when I got there,
there seemed to be this standoff.

415
00:23:01,960 --> 00:23:05,400
There was a swell of Black people
by that point.

416
00:23:07,040 --> 00:23:09,720
Neil and I
were standing in Atlantic Road

417
00:23:09,840 --> 00:23:12,360
when suddenly out of nowhere,

418
00:23:12,440 --> 00:23:15,240
these two thuggish-looking guys

419
00:23:15,320 --> 00:23:19,280
darted into the crowd
and grabbed ahold of a young Black man.

420
00:23:19,360 --> 00:23:22,080
We immediately realized these were
undercover policemen.

421
00:23:22,160 --> 00:23:24,600
And with the immortal words,
"You’re nicked,"

422
00:23:24,680 --> 00:23:27,560
they dragged him towards a police van.

423
00:23:28,440 --> 00:23:30,280
And the police were very arrogant

424
00:23:30,360 --> 00:23:33,680
about the way they were manhandling
this, um, Black man,

425
00:23:33,800 --> 00:23:37,120
and I don’t think
they expected what happened next.

426
00:23:37,200 --> 00:23:40,120
Because by that time,
there were so many of us,

427
00:23:40,200 --> 00:23:43,600
that there was a rush to free
this man who was arrested.

428
00:23:44,480 --> 00:23:46,440
The police were
completely taken by surprise

429
00:23:46,520 --> 00:23:48,960
I think they weren’t expecting
this reaction at all.

430
00:23:49,040 --> 00:23:52,200
It was an incredibly stupid thing to do.

431
00:23:52,280 --> 00:23:54,360
It really was asking for trouble,

432
00:23:54,440 --> 00:23:56,280
and they certainly got trouble.

433
00:23:56,400 --> 00:24:00,280
-

434
00:24:00,360 --> 00:24:02,960
We were in the garage
playing our music,

435
00:24:03,040 --> 00:24:05,280
testing our sounds, building our amps.

436
00:24:06,600 --> 00:24:09,200
And then, we heard a helicopter...

437
00:24:10,200 --> 00:24:12,600
virtually on the roof of my house.

438
00:24:12,680 --> 00:24:13,840
That’s what it sounded like.

439
00:24:13,920 --> 00:24:17,680
So we opened the garage
to look what this noise was.

440
00:24:17,800 --> 00:24:21,000
And then number two bus
come down his road.

441
00:24:21,080 --> 00:24:22,640
No buses never come down
Chris’s road.

442
00:24:22,760 --> 00:24:24,360
It’s a side road.

443
00:24:24,440 --> 00:24:25,960
So we knew something was up.

444
00:24:26,040 --> 00:24:29,160
So we just switched off
all the equipment,

445
00:24:29,240 --> 00:24:31,200
went out to Brixton...

446
00:24:31,280 --> 00:24:34,480
When we got to the high street,

447
00:24:34,560 --> 00:24:35,880
Wow.

448
00:24:36,880 --> 00:24:38,880
I... I have to say...

449
00:24:38,960 --> 00:24:42,040
it’s one of the
proudest moments in our life.

450
00:24:42,120 --> 00:24:44,400
-Hundreds of us,

451
00:24:44,480 --> 00:24:46,200
all my age group,

452
00:24:46,280 --> 00:24:49,120
15, 16, 17, 18 year old...

453
00:24:50,160 --> 00:24:51,400
Hundreds.

454
00:24:51,480 --> 00:24:55,760
And fight the revolution?

455
00:24:57,040 --> 00:25:00,920
To have a revolution?

456
00:25:01,000 --> 00:25:02,240
I didn’t know what it meant.

457
00:25:07,240 --> 00:25:11,000
I was so shocked and surprised
but excited at the same time.

458
00:25:11,080 --> 00:25:13,880
You see people turning over cars,
and go and help.

459
00:25:14,480 --> 00:25:16,560
You just join in, you know?

460
00:25:16,640 --> 00:25:19,120
People are smashing shop windows
so you join in.

461
00:25:19,200 --> 00:25:21,280
You pick up a brick and you
smash some shop windows.

462
00:25:21,360 --> 00:25:25,680
And fight the revolution?

463
00:25:27,280 --> 00:25:29,920
From early afternoon,
gangs of youths, some White,

464
00:25:30,000 --> 00:25:32,720
but predominantly Black,
held the police at bay.

465
00:25:32,800 --> 00:25:35,200
Petrol bombs, stones,
and bottles were thrown,

466
00:25:35,280 --> 00:25:38,200
buildings and vehicles wrecked
and set on fire.

467
00:25:38,280 --> 00:25:40,560
The only way to defuse the situation

468
00:25:40,680 --> 00:25:44,560
is by decreasing the presence of police
within the area at the present time.

469
00:25:44,680 --> 00:25:47,440
Because they see
the police as their target

470
00:25:47,520 --> 00:25:50,080
They want police withdrawal, you see,

471
00:25:50,160 --> 00:25:52,120
-and I'm not prepared to do that.
- Why not?

472
00:25:52,200 --> 00:25:54,480
Why not?
I mean, is that not a reasonable...

473
00:25:54,560 --> 00:25:57,480
No because I think if, um, if we withdraw

474
00:25:57,560 --> 00:26:00,520
then we shall allow them
to do as they wish.

475
00:26:00,640 --> 00:26:03,400
There is looting going on already
and I'm not prepared to extend that.

476
00:26:04,440 --> 00:26:06,000
What they wanted us to do, all right,

477
00:26:06,080 --> 00:26:08,640
they wanted us to disperse,
but we live in Brixton!

478
00:26:08,720 --> 00:26:10,680
They don’t live in Brixton, okay?

479
00:26:10,760 --> 00:26:13,760
So we asked them to disperse,
but they wouldn’t disperse.

480
00:26:17,200 --> 00:26:22,000
We got called in
and all hell was breaking out.

481
00:26:24,520 --> 00:26:28,200
The windows on our people carrier
disappeared fairly quickly.

482
00:26:28,280 --> 00:26:31,480
Once the windows had gone,
what we did,

483
00:26:31,560 --> 00:26:36,080
was duck our heads down,
so that we were beneath the windows.

484
00:26:36,160 --> 00:26:38,920
So hopefully we wouldn’t be hit
if anything else came in.

485
00:26:39,000 --> 00:26:42,000
And we would stick our hands out
with our truncheons,

486
00:26:42,080 --> 00:26:44,680
and we would flail them and batter ‘em

487
00:26:44,760 --> 00:26:47,080
and would you feel it whack something
from time to time.

488
00:26:47,160 --> 00:26:49,080
You didn’t know if
that was a person or a thing.

489
00:26:49,160 --> 00:26:52,480
This was a war zone,
we’re in a battle for our lives here.

490
00:26:52,600 --> 00:26:55,480
And if someone’s going to cop for it,
so be it.

491
00:26:55,600 --> 00:26:58,080
That was my attitude...
for a while.

492
00:26:59,920 --> 00:27:04,000
I can only describe
as we drove into Cold Harbor Lane,

493
00:27:04,080 --> 00:27:06,240
it was like watching a sea,

494
00:27:06,320 --> 00:27:09,720
a crowd that were, you know, stoked up.

495
00:27:09,800 --> 00:27:12,480
And you could almost feel the tension.

496
00:27:12,600 --> 00:27:15,560
You could feel almost hysteria.

497
00:27:18,040 --> 00:27:21,080
That’s really when the missiles started.

498
00:27:22,560 --> 00:27:25,240
Bricks being thrown, bottles being thrown.

499
00:27:26,160 --> 00:27:30,040
They have low front walls in front of
their, um, their terrace housing there,

500
00:27:30,120 --> 00:27:31,960
and I remember people kicking them down.

501
00:27:32,040 --> 00:27:33,640
They wanted the bricks for ammunition.

502
00:27:33,720 --> 00:27:39,000
We began to get poles, scaffolding,
bricks, baseball bats, dustbin lids.

503
00:27:39,080 --> 00:27:42,440
We wanted to hurt the police
any which way we could.

504
00:27:43,160 --> 00:27:47,480
Remember, the first time I heard
a policeman say the word gollywog,

505
00:27:47,600 --> 00:27:49,840
I am nine. The next time...

506
00:27:49,920 --> 00:27:52,400
man’s holding me up on my neck,
I'm eleven!

507
00:27:52,480 --> 00:27:56,800
People need to understand
I felt that the police brutality

508
00:27:56,880 --> 00:27:59,400
that I faced as a Black boy,

509
00:27:59,520 --> 00:28:02,200
was enough of a justification

510
00:28:02,280 --> 00:28:03,880
for me to hurt one of them.

511
00:28:03,960 --> 00:28:07,800
There was like a cinema playing
in my mind of all the indignities

512
00:28:07,880 --> 00:28:10,000
that I had experienced with the police.

513
00:28:10,080 --> 00:28:12,560
Especially remembered Trevor’s assault

514
00:28:12,640 --> 00:28:14,080
and his screams and his wails.

515
00:28:14,160 --> 00:28:18,400
And there I was with the opportunity
to get some revenge.

516
00:28:18,520 --> 00:28:21,640
And I have to admit, it felt good.

517
00:28:21,720 --> 00:28:24,040
And that Bob Marley song
kept playing in my head.

518
00:28:24,120 --> 00:28:26,920
"Slave Driver. The tables are turning.

519
00:28:27,000 --> 00:28:29,680
You catch a fire,
you’re gonna get burned."

520
00:28:37,400 --> 00:28:40,720
I mean, wow.
When you hear that as a teenager,

521
00:28:57,000 --> 00:29:00,000
I do remember there was
a man standing on the roof

522
00:29:00,080 --> 00:29:01,520
and I remember him shouting,

523
00:29:01,600 --> 00:29:04,960
"I am going to watch you be
humiliated in your defeat."

524
00:29:06,880 --> 00:29:10,560
Then it just seemed to be... relentless.

525
00:29:15,800 --> 00:29:17,040
A lot of chaos...

526
00:29:18,320 --> 00:29:20,240
a lot of coppers getting hurt.

527
00:29:24,160 --> 00:29:26,440
I feared for my life.

528
00:29:26,520 --> 00:29:29,720
And for the lives of my colleagues.

529
00:29:29,800 --> 00:29:32,640
It was that... ghastly...

530
00:29:32,720 --> 00:29:34,480
-

531
00:29:41,800 --> 00:29:45,120
to see a substantial number of people

532
00:29:45,800 --> 00:29:49,040
that clearly, as I saw it,

533
00:29:49,120 --> 00:29:51,320
had the intention to kill me.

534
00:29:52,440 --> 00:29:54,840
Not because of me as an individual

535
00:29:54,920 --> 00:29:57,800
but because of the cloth that I wore.

536
00:29:57,880 --> 00:30:00,640
The symbol that I represented.

537
00:30:01,760 --> 00:30:05,600
It was like...
what is this all about?

538
00:30:07,640 --> 00:30:10,040
I can only speak personally.
I was terrified

539
00:30:11,480 --> 00:30:12,920
-

540
00:30:13,000 --> 00:30:17,160
At one stage, I couldn’t see
beyond just in front of the shield.

541
00:30:17,240 --> 00:30:20,960
The flames were that high
that you couldn’t see past them.

542
00:30:21,040 --> 00:30:25,080
I'd been an ambulance officer,
prior to becoming a police officer.

543
00:30:25,160 --> 00:30:28,480
And I had picked up
several people with third degree burns

544
00:30:28,560 --> 00:30:31,880
So loads of people often ask me,
"Did you think you were going to die?"

545
00:30:31,960 --> 00:30:34,080
I actually didn’t,
but did I think I might end up

546
00:30:34,160 --> 00:30:36,200
with third degree burns? Yes, I did.

547
00:30:36,280 --> 00:30:40,160
And anyone who’s ever had the misfortune
even to have that injury,

548
00:30:40,240 --> 00:30:43,200
would know that is life-changing forever.

549
00:30:44,520 --> 00:30:45,960
We’d make our way to Brixton,

550
00:30:46,040 --> 00:30:48,520
from Piccadilly Circus Regent Street.

551
00:30:48,600 --> 00:30:51,800
On the way there, you can hear comments,

552
00:30:51,880 --> 00:30:55,080
like, uh, "These BBs,"
these Black Bastards,

553
00:30:55,160 --> 00:30:56,960
You know, they're rioting down there.

554
00:30:57,040 --> 00:30:58,960
You know,
why don’t we just let them riot?"

555
00:30:59,040 --> 00:31:01,560
I come thinking,
"Don’t they realize that I’m in here?"

556
00:31:03,400 --> 00:31:05,360
And as we hit Brixton High Road,

557
00:31:05,440 --> 00:31:09,520
then I can see,
the flicker of flames in the distance.

558
00:31:09,600 --> 00:31:12,640
You can hear shouting and screaming

559
00:31:12,720 --> 00:31:14,160
and you can hear glass breaking.

560
00:31:15,200 --> 00:31:18,320
Then all of a sudden,
people are shouting and screaming,

561
00:31:18,400 --> 00:31:20,040
looked up, and saw my face.

562
00:31:24,680 --> 00:31:27,440
Oh, my God, the next thing you know,
the bricks... whack.

563
00:31:29,040 --> 00:31:30,160
One of the windows went in.

564
00:31:30,240 --> 00:31:33,960
I could see the fire bombs coming around,
the Green Goddesses.

565
00:31:34,040 --> 00:31:36,400
This was a determined effort, I think,

566
00:31:36,480 --> 00:31:38,800
you know, to get to me.

567
00:31:40,640 --> 00:31:42,840
Brixton station was just there.

568
00:31:42,920 --> 00:31:45,480
The officers got off.
I could see them pushing off people.

569
00:31:46,320 --> 00:31:48,960
You could see that
on either sides of the doors,

570
00:31:49,040 --> 00:31:50,720
the shields were there.

571
00:31:50,800 --> 00:31:54,040
I came out.
Some of the officers, they escorted me

572
00:31:54,120 --> 00:31:56,080
into Brixton Police Station

573
00:31:56,160 --> 00:31:58,760
under heavy bombardment.

574
00:31:59,680 --> 00:32:01,920
And all I can say is
that those officers,

575
00:32:02,000 --> 00:32:05,960
you know, I didn’t hear
one racist comment then.

576
00:32:06,040 --> 00:32:08,440
I mean, all they did
was ask if I was all right.

577
00:32:08,520 --> 00:32:10,920
And at that moment,
I looked, and I thought,

578
00:32:11,000 --> 00:32:14,400
"All this stuff I’ve been hearing,
on the way down here,

579
00:32:14,480 --> 00:32:16,840
was making me angry
because I am amongst these people.

580
00:32:16,920 --> 00:32:21,400
Then they are protecting me, um,
and I thought, "Wow,"

581
00:32:21,480 --> 00:32:23,800
you know, this...
"What a turnaround."

582
00:32:25,200 --> 00:32:28,000
Ladies and gentlemen...
it’s very difficult work.

583
00:32:28,080 --> 00:32:31,600
I remember
we were still in our line

584
00:32:31,680 --> 00:32:33,400
and all of a sudden from nowhere,

585
00:32:33,480 --> 00:32:37,360
a vicar run alongside
and he was screaming,

586
00:32:37,440 --> 00:32:40,680
"It’s all your fault. It’s all your fault.

587
00:32:40,760 --> 00:32:42,560
Now this is all your fault."

588
00:32:43,480 --> 00:32:46,000
Including the places that were on fire

589
00:32:46,080 --> 00:32:48,520
was the pub, where the landlady

590
00:32:48,600 --> 00:32:51,440
had given us the crate of light ales
the night before.

591
00:32:51,520 --> 00:32:54,840
It was deeply shocking.

592
00:32:54,920 --> 00:32:58,440
We had some affection towards
that lady because of how she treated us.

593
00:32:58,520 --> 00:33:02,040
Her pub was literally burnt to the ground.

594
00:33:02,120 --> 00:33:04,080
The flames,
when you have a fire like that,

595
00:33:04,160 --> 00:33:07,280
you really thought...
I don’t think people quite understand

596
00:33:07,360 --> 00:33:09,560
how you could feel it so much.

597
00:33:10,640 --> 00:33:13,600
For me, it was kind of a bit of karma.

598
00:33:13,680 --> 00:33:15,760
I remember people
saying to me, that, um,

599
00:33:15,840 --> 00:33:18,000
they don’t like serving Black people

600
00:33:18,080 --> 00:33:21,240
My father, I remember
once I was united with him,

601
00:33:21,320 --> 00:33:23,920
we had a conversation
about how he was denied entry

602
00:33:24,000 --> 00:33:27,200
to so many pubs
in South London.

603
00:33:27,280 --> 00:33:30,680
And how he felt less than a man
because they would not serve him.

604
00:33:30,760 --> 00:33:33,200
But to turn around and see that on fire,

605
00:33:33,280 --> 00:33:34,840
I thought...

606
00:33:36,400 --> 00:33:37,880
I had complete understanding

607
00:33:37,960 --> 00:33:39,720
as to why The George was burned down.

608
00:33:39,800 --> 00:33:42,680
We used to call the George "Rhodesia."

609
00:33:42,760 --> 00:33:45,920
It was not really a place that welcomed
Black people so, it's targeted.

610
00:33:46,000 --> 00:33:47,920
They've taken down The George.

611
00:33:48,000 --> 00:33:49,720
Um, and that was at the end of my road,

612
00:33:49,800 --> 00:33:52,400
so I saw the George go up in flames.

613
00:33:54,160 --> 00:33:56,000
I don’t take fires very well

614
00:33:56,080 --> 00:33:59,360
even now, because it does...
it tears at my heart strings.

615
00:34:01,320 --> 00:34:02,600
But do you know what?

616
00:34:05,560 --> 00:34:07,040
they were good fires.

617
00:34:08,000 --> 00:34:09,080
Watch out!

618
00:34:12,760 --> 00:34:14,640
They were fires of freedom.

619
00:34:14,680 --> 00:34:16,560
People were breaking the chains.

620
00:34:23,600 --> 00:34:26,280
I understood why it was happening

621
00:34:26,360 --> 00:34:28,760
better than I understood
anything else really.

622
00:34:28,840 --> 00:34:33,840
But I was in this courtroom of
"I understand what my people's about,

623
00:34:33,920 --> 00:34:36,800
they shouldn’t really be violent about it,
but they have to make a stance."

624
00:34:36,880 --> 00:34:39,360
There I am as a police officer,
to protect the law,

625
00:34:39,440 --> 00:34:41,600
"Blimey, I’ve got to do my job."

626
00:34:44,120 --> 00:34:46,440
We always thought we were in charge.

627
00:34:46,520 --> 00:34:48,640
We always thought we bossed it.

628
00:34:48,760 --> 00:34:54,280
It was always about winning
the battle against the bad guys.

629
00:34:54,360 --> 00:34:58,840
That weekend, we roundly lost.

630
00:34:59,840 --> 00:35:00,960
Well into the night,

631
00:35:01,040 --> 00:35:03,000
the police struggled
to be seen on the streets

632
00:35:03,120 --> 00:35:04,600
and in control of them.

633
00:35:04,640 --> 00:35:07,160
Now that the alarm bells
clamoring in their ears,

634
00:35:07,200 --> 00:35:08,640
they remained in their coaches,

635
00:35:08,680 --> 00:35:11,960
trying to doze,
waiting to see if the calm would last.

636
00:35:12,080 --> 00:35:13,880
There were so many police,

637
00:35:13,960 --> 00:35:17,680
in these coaches, and they were
sipping coffee in polystyrene cups,

638
00:35:17,800 --> 00:35:20,960
and they looked at us,
and their faces were full of fear.

639
00:35:21,640 --> 00:35:23,040
Full of fear.

640
00:35:23,560 --> 00:35:25,840
It struck me at that point that

641
00:35:25,920 --> 00:35:28,680
the police had somehow been weakened.

642
00:35:28,800 --> 00:35:31,160
And were vulnerable and were fragile.

643
00:35:31,280 --> 00:35:34,640
They were scared. That’s the first time
I have seen police scared.

644
00:35:34,680 --> 00:35:37,200
That’s the first time
I saw them as human beings.

645
00:35:37,320 --> 00:35:40,400
I didn’t see them as human beings before,
we'd see them as robots.

646
00:35:41,080 --> 00:35:43,280
When I got home that night,

647
00:35:43,360 --> 00:35:46,360
I thought, "I'm an enemy of the people,

648
00:35:46,440 --> 00:35:48,960
I'm not helping the people,

649
00:35:49,080 --> 00:35:53,160
this is not what I joined policing for."

650
00:35:53,280 --> 00:35:55,960
And I just went, "You know,
I’ve got to get out of this uniform.

651
00:35:56,080 --> 00:36:00,000
I can’t hack this,
I've got to get out of this uniform."

652
00:36:03,920 --> 00:36:05,640
I managed to get home round about

653
00:36:05,760 --> 00:36:08,400
half four,
maybe five o’clock in the morning.

654
00:36:10,480 --> 00:36:11,840
I just could not sleep.

655
00:36:11,920 --> 00:36:15,640
And I remember
writing on the back of a record sleeve,

656
00:36:15,760 --> 00:36:17,640
you know, the starting of a lyric.

657
00:36:31,080 --> 00:36:33,920
And we have no shilling

658
00:36:34,040 --> 00:36:36,280
No more of this suffering

659
00:36:39,320 --> 00:36:40,840
There is official bewilderment

660
00:36:40,960 --> 00:36:43,160
as to how a rise of this scale occurred.

661
00:36:43,200 --> 00:36:44,680
For nearly six hours last night,

662
00:36:44,800 --> 00:36:48,600
police struggled to retain control
of Brixton’s decaying streets.

663
00:36:48,640 --> 00:36:50,840
Their antagonists,
were five or six hundred,

664
00:36:50,960 --> 00:36:52,440
mainly Black teenagers.

665
00:36:52,520 --> 00:36:55,440
It was one of the worst riots
seen in Britain.

666
00:36:56,800 --> 00:36:58,520
Well, it was the next day really,

667
00:36:58,600 --> 00:37:02,760
then when I went out
and I saw it was like a war zone.

668
00:37:02,840 --> 00:37:05,160
Buildings still smoldering,

669
00:37:06,120 --> 00:37:09,520
wrecked cars, rubble everywhere.

670
00:37:10,200 --> 00:37:13,080
It was just...
like the world was over really.

671
00:37:13,640 --> 00:37:16,160
No one must condone the violence,

672
00:37:16,200 --> 00:37:19,560
no one must condone
the disgraceful events that took place.

673
00:37:19,640 --> 00:37:22,640
It should not have happened,
they were criminal.

674
00:37:22,680 --> 00:37:24,840
Criminal.
And it should never have occurred.

675
00:37:25,640 --> 00:37:27,440
What this resulted in

676
00:37:27,520 --> 00:37:30,160
was worldwide attention on Brixton.

677
00:37:30,280 --> 00:37:32,840
News crews from all over the world

678
00:37:32,960 --> 00:37:35,920
and wanting to know what’s gone on
and why it happened.

679
00:37:36,000 --> 00:37:38,840
It seemed to be very biased against us.

680
00:37:38,960 --> 00:37:42,360
but at least it was being
debated and discussed.

681
00:37:42,440 --> 00:37:45,360
People might doubt our methods

682
00:37:45,440 --> 00:37:48,960
but no doubt, it made people
stand up and take notice

683
00:37:49,040 --> 00:37:52,160
that if you were
oppressing people for so long,

684
00:37:52,200 --> 00:37:55,280
one day they're going to rise up
and bite your ass.

685
00:37:57,320 --> 00:38:00,880
Tensions have not evaporated
when the home secretary, Mr. Whitelaw,

686
00:38:00,960 --> 00:38:02,760
visited Brixton this afternoon.

687
00:38:02,880 --> 00:38:06,640
As he toured the scarred streets,
there were chants of derision

688
00:38:06,680 --> 00:38:09,520
and Mr. Whitelaw
was closely protected by police.

689
00:38:09,600 --> 00:38:12,400
He now faces demands
by community leaders

690
00:38:12,480 --> 00:38:15,040
for an independent
inquiry into police action.

691
00:38:17,560 --> 00:38:21,640
The events of this weekend
call for the most high examination.

692
00:38:21,760 --> 00:38:24,640
I have therefore decided
to appoint an inquiry.

693
00:38:24,680 --> 00:38:29,000
I have invited Lord Scarman
to undertake this inquiry

694
00:38:29,080 --> 00:38:31,200
and I am glad to say he has accepted.

695
00:38:31,320 --> 00:38:33,440
Lord Scarman, what sort of information

696
00:38:33,520 --> 00:38:35,760
are you asking people
to come forward with?

697
00:38:35,880 --> 00:38:40,520
Two sorts of information.
One, about the facts of the riots,

698
00:38:40,600 --> 00:38:42,880
very important, and the other,

699
00:38:42,960 --> 00:38:46,000
to come forward with their views

700
00:38:46,080 --> 00:38:48,960
as to the underlying social conditions,

701
00:38:49,040 --> 00:38:51,640
giving rise to the sort of tensions

702
00:38:51,760 --> 00:38:53,760
which broke out into
these disturbances.

703
00:38:55,760 --> 00:38:57,160
My name is Philip Mawer

704
00:38:57,200 --> 00:39:00,440
and I was the secretary
of Lord Scarman’s inquiry

705
00:39:00,520 --> 00:39:02,080
into the Brixton disturbances.

706
00:39:03,440 --> 00:39:05,320
It was a concern at the outset

707
00:39:05,400 --> 00:39:09,400
that we might not get
the cooperation of the local community

708
00:39:09,480 --> 00:39:11,920
but we had to make the effort

709
00:39:12,000 --> 00:39:14,640
to go and talk to people and explain.

710
00:39:14,800 --> 00:39:18,000
And my main pitch was simply this.

711
00:39:18,080 --> 00:39:20,600
This is an opportunity for you.

712
00:39:20,640 --> 00:39:25,520
If you don’t take this opportunity,
your voice will not be heard.

713
00:39:25,600 --> 00:39:27,960
And that will be disastrous.

714
00:39:28,040 --> 00:39:30,320
When Lord Scarman came to us,

715
00:39:31,640 --> 00:39:32,680
We had a little bit of a hope,

716
00:39:32,840 --> 00:39:34,400
and I am going to
tell you why I said that.

717
00:39:34,480 --> 00:39:36,480
Because he met with us physically.

718
00:39:36,560 --> 00:39:39,920
Lord Scarman came to... to see us in...

719
00:39:40,000 --> 00:39:42,000
um, the youth center, Shepherds.
Yeah?

720
00:39:42,080 --> 00:39:44,640
I don’t remember a White person

721
00:39:44,680 --> 00:39:47,680
in the establishment,
ever asking a Black kid

722
00:39:47,840 --> 00:39:51,160
about their feelings,
about why you did what you did.

723
00:39:51,280 --> 00:39:52,400
He did.

724
00:39:52,480 --> 00:39:55,960
What was striking about it
was the juxtaposition.

725
00:39:56,040 --> 00:39:59,440
Scarman, in a sense
quintessential representative

726
00:39:59,520 --> 00:40:02,000
of the British establishment
on the one hand.

727
00:40:02,080 --> 00:40:03,360
And on the other hand,

728
00:40:03,440 --> 00:40:07,800
the setting and
the intensity of the discussion.

729
00:40:07,880 --> 00:40:10,040
They told him straight

730
00:40:10,120 --> 00:40:12,520
of their experience over the years.

731
00:40:12,600 --> 00:40:15,760
People who had experienced policing

732
00:40:15,840 --> 00:40:18,440
at first hand on the streets of Brixton.

733
00:40:25,600 --> 00:40:26,760
From first thing this morning,

734
00:40:26,840 --> 00:40:30,400
about 30 demonstrators were marching
up and down outside the coroner's court,

735
00:40:30,480 --> 00:40:33,320
chanting allegations of murder
and a police cover up.

736
00:40:33,400 --> 00:40:35,320
With them, they had placards
bearing the pictures

737
00:40:35,400 --> 00:40:38,320
of the 13 youngsters who died in the fire.

738
00:40:38,400 --> 00:40:41,520
Lawyers for the victims’ families
have insisted very firmly

739
00:40:41,600 --> 00:40:44,080
that an incendiary
was thrown through the window

740
00:40:44,160 --> 00:40:47,480
just as firmly the forensic expert
has been sticking to his belief

741
00:40:47,560 --> 00:40:50,880
that the fire started
inside the house on the carpet.

742
00:40:50,960 --> 00:40:55,000
There is no evidence that indicates
that there is any form of racialism

743
00:40:55,080 --> 00:40:57,160
involved in this inquiry whatsoever.

744
00:40:57,280 --> 00:40:59,400
He said that he didn’t think

745
00:40:59,480 --> 00:41:01,800
that this was a racial attack

746
00:41:01,880 --> 00:41:04,280
and I remember the whole court room

747
00:41:04,360 --> 00:41:07,760
just exploding with boos and shouts.

748
00:41:07,840 --> 00:41:11,000
For over five hours,
Commander Stockwell was cross-examined,

749
00:41:11,080 --> 00:41:14,440
at times jeered derisively by
relatives and friends of the victims,

750
00:41:14,520 --> 00:41:18,080
in particular, over his evidence about
an alleged fight in the house

751
00:41:18,160 --> 00:41:20,160
shortly before the fire broke out.

752
00:41:20,200 --> 00:41:23,920
Already at this inquest, young partygoers
have denied there was a fight,

753
00:41:24,000 --> 00:41:26,760
retracting statements they made
while in police custody.

754
00:41:26,840 --> 00:41:29,880
The judge asked me about my
police interview and what have you

755
00:41:29,960 --> 00:41:33,280
so I said, "Well, the police
were asking me the questions

756
00:41:33,360 --> 00:41:34,680
and answering them themselves."

757
00:41:34,800 --> 00:41:36,880
And that was that...
that one line is enough.

758
00:41:36,960 --> 00:41:38,360
The whole court was in uproar.

759
00:41:38,440 --> 00:41:42,080
Denise had earlier claimed
that police officers had shouted at her.

760
00:41:42,160 --> 00:41:44,000
This was agreed by her father.

761
00:41:44,080 --> 00:41:46,000
Mr. Gooding said
the officers were shouting,

762
00:41:46,080 --> 00:41:48,000
"You’re lying! Come on, Denise,
you’re lying.

763
00:41:48,080 --> 00:41:49,800
Don’t cover up for anyone.

764
00:41:49,880 --> 00:41:52,080
Remember, you have a dead brother,
Andrew Gooding."

765
00:41:52,160 --> 00:41:55,480
It was at this point
that Mr. Gooding broke down crying.

766
00:41:55,560 --> 00:41:58,160
The coroner told him,
"You must try and control yourself."

767
00:41:58,200 --> 00:42:01,320
To which Mr. Gooding replied,
"You don’t know what I am going through.

768
00:42:01,400 --> 00:42:05,160
Listen, sir, I had three children in there
and not one came out unhurt."

769
00:42:08,520 --> 00:42:11,280
During the inquest, I went into labor,

770
00:42:12,120 --> 00:42:14,760
and on the 5th of May, I had Janine.

771
00:42:14,840 --> 00:42:17,480
She was born at
14 minutes past five.

772
00:42:17,560 --> 00:42:22,040
Yes, out of all of this madness,
she managed to arrive healthy,

773
00:42:22,120 --> 00:42:25,440
bouncing baby girl.

774
00:42:26,360 --> 00:42:29,200
I felt over the moon,
joyed and happy

775
00:42:29,320 --> 00:42:33,920
but sad also, because Paul
should have been standing with me, too.

776
00:42:34,000 --> 00:42:36,680
and watching our baby being born.

777
00:42:36,800 --> 00:42:39,160
I did it by myself, so...

778
00:42:41,960 --> 00:42:44,160
After 13 days in court,

779
00:42:44,280 --> 00:42:46,920
and more than 80 hours of evidence,
from nearly 60 witnesses,

780
00:42:47,000 --> 00:42:50,360
it took the jury just two hours
to come to an open verdict.

781
00:42:50,440 --> 00:42:52,040
Mrs. Armza Ruddock, who gave the party

782
00:42:52,120 --> 00:42:53,520
and lost two children in the fire,

783
00:42:53,640 --> 00:42:55,000
was in no mood to accept it.

784
00:42:55,080 --> 00:42:57,640
An open verdict...
verdict was what I expected

785
00:42:57,760 --> 00:42:59,080
but it is not what it should be.

786
00:42:59,160 --> 00:43:00,760
It should be murder.

787
00:43:00,840 --> 00:43:04,080
It was an open verdict,
'cause it wasn’t investigated properly

788
00:43:04,760 --> 00:43:08,160
I just want to know from that person
why they actually done it

789
00:43:08,280 --> 00:43:11,400
and just for someone to say they’re sorry.

790
00:43:11,480 --> 00:43:13,840
But... just closure.

791
00:43:13,920 --> 00:43:18,120
An open verdict, for me, isn’t closure.

792
00:43:19,920 --> 00:43:21,160
I was still in hospital.

793
00:43:21,200 --> 00:43:23,600
My mum came to
the hospital, my mum cried.

794
00:43:24,560 --> 00:43:27,040
Because now at this point,
for the rest of her life,

795
00:43:27,120 --> 00:43:29,120
she’s going to have to pack up work
and look after me now,

796
00:43:29,160 --> 00:43:31,800
so what about... "Oh, and how am I going
to take care of my son?"

797
00:43:33,120 --> 00:43:36,480
There ain’t no government help,
there ain’t no money coming from nowhere.

798
00:43:36,600 --> 00:43:39,120
And she did,
she broke down and cried.

799
00:43:39,160 --> 00:43:41,760
She don’t think it’s fair.
She didn’t think it was fair on me,

800
00:43:41,840 --> 00:43:44,800
she didn’t think it was fair
on any of the other children.

801
00:43:45,640 --> 00:43:47,520
We got nothing at any time,

802
00:43:47,600 --> 00:43:50,120
whether it be a verdict
you’ve caught somebody,

803
00:43:50,200 --> 00:43:51,640
whatever, nothing.

804
00:43:51,720 --> 00:43:54,320
Nothing in our case has gone right

805
00:43:54,400 --> 00:43:55,520
And do you know what?

806
00:43:56,120 --> 00:43:58,400
It’s not fair.

807
00:43:58,520 --> 00:44:00,880
It’s not right.

808
00:44:00,960 --> 00:44:03,560
The verdict signaled to
the Black community

809
00:44:03,640 --> 00:44:07,240
that the police, the media, courts,

810
00:44:07,320 --> 00:44:09,240
basically all felt that

811
00:44:10,720 --> 00:44:12,960
those lives didn’t matter

812
00:44:13,040 --> 00:44:14,960
and there were gasps of disbelief.

813
00:44:15,040 --> 00:44:20,120
It was just like a pressure pot
and with the lid had just come off.

814
00:44:20,200 --> 00:44:23,800
It was like you couldn’t
hold it in anymore.

815
00:44:29,360 --> 00:44:30,360
Come on! Come on!

816
00:44:30,480 --> 00:44:32,800
Tension had been high
in Southall’s Asian community

817
00:44:32,880 --> 00:44:35,760
in recent weeks, but no one was prepared

818
00:44:35,840 --> 00:44:37,760
for the scale of last night’s violence.

819
00:44:40,320 --> 00:44:44,240
One of the worst and most terrifying
rioting ever seen in Britain,

820
00:44:44,320 --> 00:44:46,360
more than a hundred
White and colored youths

821
00:44:46,480 --> 00:44:48,720
fought a pitched battle
against the police.

822
00:44:48,800 --> 00:44:52,000
Some were as young as 12,
the oldest, no more than 20.

823
00:44:52,080 --> 00:44:54,720
It's been building up for years,
like Brixton and all that.

824
00:44:54,800 --> 00:44:58,240
but Brixton, it was all Blacks,
but last night

825
00:44:58,320 --> 00:45:00,000
was Blacks and Whites.

826
00:45:00,080 --> 00:45:01,600
Why... why has it happened?

827
00:45:01,680 --> 00:45:03,200
Because of, um, police brutality,

828
00:45:03,280 --> 00:45:05,200
police harassment, oppression.

829
00:45:05,280 --> 00:45:08,080
We just want respect,
and treated like human beings.

830
00:45:08,160 --> 00:45:09,160
That's what we are.

831
00:45:15,080 --> 00:45:17,360
The unprecedented outbreak of violence

832
00:45:17,480 --> 00:45:19,080
on the streets of Mainland Britain.

833
00:45:22,760 --> 00:45:25,560
Last night, like the night before,
it was the turn of Manchester

834
00:45:25,640 --> 00:45:27,800
to suffer from rioting and looting

835
00:45:27,880 --> 00:45:30,320
I and a number of youth workers

836
00:45:30,440 --> 00:45:32,240
were running around Moss Side

837
00:45:32,320 --> 00:45:35,200
to get a sense of what was happening.

838
00:45:38,240 --> 00:45:39,720
They were totally fearless.

839
00:45:39,800 --> 00:45:43,240
They could not,
on that night, give a damn,

840
00:45:43,320 --> 00:45:46,720
about what was likely to happen
or not happen to them.

841
00:45:46,800 --> 00:45:49,280
They felt a sense of strength,

842
00:45:49,400 --> 00:45:51,800
of collective energy

843
00:45:51,880 --> 00:45:54,960
and I think to a large extent,
their boldness and confidence

844
00:45:55,040 --> 00:45:57,880
came from the New Cross protest.

845
00:45:57,960 --> 00:46:02,040
Because they were amongst
some of the young people

846
00:46:02,120 --> 00:46:04,240
who got on those twelve coaches

847
00:46:04,320 --> 00:46:08,960
that left outside Moss Side
education center that day.

848
00:46:09,040 --> 00:46:11,520
to go to London to join the march.

849
00:46:11,600 --> 00:46:13,320
Cease fire!

850
00:46:30,640 --> 00:46:32,960
Of the friction

851
00:46:41,360 --> 00:46:45,560
I saw poetry as a cultural weapon

852
00:46:45,640 --> 00:46:49,000
in the Black liberation struggle.

853
00:46:52,280 --> 00:46:54,160
I saw my role as a poet

854
00:46:54,240 --> 00:46:58,560
as chronicling the history of
Black people in this country

855
00:47:04,480 --> 00:47:08,400
Black people were
no longer prepared to be marginalized

856
00:47:08,480 --> 00:47:10,840
and treated like colonials.

857
00:47:21,440 --> 00:47:24,600
The level of damage was unbelievable.

858
00:47:24,680 --> 00:47:26,800
It totally shocked me, you know,

859
00:47:26,880 --> 00:47:30,880
and this was just before
Prince Charles and Diana’s wedding.

860
00:47:30,960 --> 00:47:35,000
And so you had this weird juxtaposition.

861
00:47:35,080 --> 00:47:38,200
The establishment was gearing up
to this royal wedding

862
00:47:38,320 --> 00:47:40,480
and yet the country
was going up in flames.

863
00:47:40,560 --> 00:47:41,880
It was quite something.

864
00:47:42,760 --> 00:47:44,280
The Prime Minister has called it

865
00:47:44,360 --> 00:47:46,520
the most worrying ten days
of the government.

866
00:47:46,600 --> 00:47:49,480
For all of us, the rioting
and burning of or cities

867
00:47:49,560 --> 00:47:51,760
has shaken our
unquestioning belief

868
00:47:51,840 --> 00:47:54,880
in a stable, law-abiding
multiracial Britain.

869
00:47:55,760 --> 00:47:58,600
We all have a tendency to

870
00:47:58,680 --> 00:48:01,280
what I call moral relativism.

871
00:48:02,360 --> 00:48:05,520
So you would
moralize about the conduct of people

872
00:48:05,600 --> 00:48:07,280
who are resisting oppression,

873
00:48:07,360 --> 00:48:09,760
but you're quite prepared
to live very happily

874
00:48:09,840 --> 00:48:12,560
with the conduct of those
who oppress them.

875
00:48:14,600 --> 00:48:18,920
And that’s been the problem for
as long as I have been in this country

876
00:48:19,000 --> 00:48:21,080
and that's since 1964.

877
00:48:22,480 --> 00:48:24,680
Riots are not a pretty thing.

878
00:48:24,760 --> 00:48:26,720
Brixton was bad

879
00:48:26,800 --> 00:48:29,440
but the fact that there were
subsequent disorders

880
00:48:29,520 --> 00:48:33,280
heightened the importance
of the inquiry process.

881
00:48:33,360 --> 00:48:37,000
Because it was clear
that what happened in Brixton

882
00:48:37,080 --> 00:48:38,960
was not unique to Brixton.

883
00:48:39,040 --> 00:48:41,360
There was a national issue here

884
00:48:41,440 --> 00:48:45,120
that gave added impetus to the report.

885
00:48:45,240 --> 00:48:48,440
It gave us the opportunity
to give it added breath.

886
00:48:48,520 --> 00:48:50,040
Well, in a moment, we’ll be looking at

887
00:48:50,120 --> 00:48:52,720
the growing political argument
on what needs to be done

888
00:48:52,800 --> 00:48:54,960
to prevent such scenes in the future.

889
00:48:55,040 --> 00:48:58,120
The Prime Minister Mrs. Thatcher
was in no doubt about her views.

890
00:48:58,240 --> 00:49:00,040
The latest night of mob violence

891
00:49:00,120 --> 00:49:03,760
had nothing to do with the city's problems
of bad housing and unemployment.

892
00:49:03,840 --> 00:49:06,280
It was a spree of naked glee.

893
00:49:07,240 --> 00:49:09,400
They’ve taken away
everything that the poor man have.

894
00:49:09,480 --> 00:49:12,000
You know, I mean,
they’ve taken everything bit by bit.

895
00:49:12,080 --> 00:49:14,440
So the poor man don’t got nothing
apart from his shoes.

896
00:49:14,520 --> 00:49:16,280
Margaret Thatcher
don’t care about nothing

897
00:49:16,360 --> 00:49:18,320
to what happen to no Black man
in this country.

898
00:49:18,400 --> 00:49:19,600
She don't care.

899
00:49:20,880 --> 00:49:22,760
Martin Luther King is correct

900
00:49:22,840 --> 00:49:25,840
when he says that riot
is a language of the unheard.

901
00:49:25,920 --> 00:49:27,640
We felt unheard and I am sure that

902
00:49:27,720 --> 00:49:30,960
other communities all over the UK
felt unheard.

903
00:49:31,040 --> 00:49:34,960
I mean, living under a Thatcher government
was incredibly tough.

904
00:49:35,040 --> 00:49:39,000
But, she had to, um,
stand up and take notice.

905
00:49:44,200 --> 00:49:46,960
The Scarman report on
this summer’s riots in Britain

906
00:49:47,040 --> 00:49:50,000
It’s already been described
as a major challenge to the nation.

907
00:49:50,080 --> 00:49:51,920
...welcomed both by the Home Secretary

908
00:49:52,000 --> 00:49:55,080
and the police themselves, but some people
take a more cynical view...

909
00:49:55,200 --> 00:49:56,520
...are now asking
whether it will bring about

910
00:49:56,600 --> 00:49:58,680
any real change in Brixton.

911
00:49:58,760 --> 00:50:02,560
Good evening. Lord Scarman’s report
has been welcomed by the government,

912
00:50:02,640 --> 00:50:06,320
praised by the opposition,
criticized by the local authority involved

913
00:50:06,400 --> 00:50:08,880
as a bitter disappointment.
Yet, for better or worse,

914
00:50:08,960 --> 00:50:11,840
it is now the official text
for interpreting, judging,

915
00:50:11,920 --> 00:50:15,480
and trying to prevent a repetition
of the summer riots

916
00:50:15,560 --> 00:50:17,560
-in the nation’s major cities.
-

917
00:50:17,640 --> 00:50:19,920
It's available only at eight pounds.

918
00:50:22,640 --> 00:50:27,000
Deprived youngsters
who believed that they were deprived

919
00:50:27,120 --> 00:50:29,360
because of the colors of their skin,

920
00:50:29,440 --> 00:50:33,040
unable to get what they thought
were fair opportunities

921
00:50:33,160 --> 00:50:35,360
of education, or jobs,

922
00:50:35,440 --> 00:50:39,200
and suffering as they thought harassment,

923
00:50:39,280 --> 00:50:42,760
took to the streets,
because they saw no other way

924
00:50:42,840 --> 00:50:44,560
of airing their grievances.

925
00:50:44,640 --> 00:50:48,480
I believe that his report
offered a challenge to government

926
00:50:48,560 --> 00:50:50,000
as well as to the police.

927
00:50:50,120 --> 00:50:54,480
It represented for the first time,
an occasion on which:

928
00:50:54,560 --> 00:50:57,760
A, the Black voice was heard,

929
00:50:57,840 --> 00:51:02,480
and B, the conditions facing
the Black community were exposed vividly.

930
00:51:03,600 --> 00:51:06,200
We knew that a lot of the discussion

931
00:51:06,280 --> 00:51:08,680
was all around the issue of deprivation.

932
00:51:08,760 --> 00:51:12,080
These deprived poor youths,
with no hope,

933
00:51:12,160 --> 00:51:16,720
you know, this was the last straw,
that nobody really wanted to accept

934
00:51:16,800 --> 00:51:19,200
the real issue, which was
the issue of police oppression

935
00:51:19,280 --> 00:51:20,600
in the Black community.

936
00:51:20,680 --> 00:51:23,040
You know, at the heart of all policing

937
00:51:23,120 --> 00:51:26,840
is relationship. It’s about relationship
between the police on the one hand

938
00:51:26,920 --> 00:51:28,080
and the community on the other.

939
00:51:28,160 --> 00:51:31,720
The tragedy in Brixton was that
the relationship had broken down.

940
00:51:31,800 --> 00:51:35,520
I think Scarman
recognized that the police

941
00:51:35,600 --> 00:51:38,760
needed to change the way that they,

942
00:51:38,840 --> 00:51:41,960
um, work with the Black community.

943
00:51:42,080 --> 00:51:45,840
And I think he made some
recommendations about policing

944
00:51:45,920 --> 00:51:49,640
that were, by and large,
ignored by the police.

945
00:51:50,400 --> 00:51:53,880
Of course, to say it needs to be done

946
00:51:54,000 --> 00:51:57,240
is not the same as it being done.

947
00:51:57,320 --> 00:51:59,440
Was it taken up?

948
00:51:59,520 --> 00:52:01,360
No, I don’t think so.

949
00:52:01,440 --> 00:52:03,920
You see the same old behavior happening.

950
00:52:04,040 --> 00:52:06,760
A few policies are put into place,
you know,

951
00:52:06,840 --> 00:52:09,240
a little bit stronger
supervision, leadership and things,

952
00:52:09,320 --> 00:52:12,120
but was it robust enough? No.

953
00:52:12,200 --> 00:52:14,040
Was it supported by the government itself?

954
00:52:14,120 --> 00:52:15,080
No.

955
00:52:15,160 --> 00:52:18,440
It was really disregarded by
the Margaret Thatcher regime.

956
00:52:20,320 --> 00:52:22,800
I comfort myself with the thought that

957
00:52:22,880 --> 00:52:25,160
in a democracy in particular,

958
00:52:25,240 --> 00:52:30,120
one is perhaps always in the business
of taking small steps

959
00:52:30,200 --> 00:52:33,440
towards a better state of affairs.

960
00:52:33,520 --> 00:52:38,040
And if Scarman’s report
contributed towards doing that

961
00:52:38,120 --> 00:52:41,600
then, um, it did its job.

962
00:52:47,680 --> 00:52:51,000
It was important that in 1981,

963
00:52:51,080 --> 00:52:55,080
more and more people from
the African and Asian Diaspora

964
00:52:55,160 --> 00:52:58,800
gained a belief in collective action
to bring about change.

965
00:52:58,880 --> 00:53:03,680
-

966
00:53:07,280 --> 00:53:11,800
For me, to be protagonists in pursuit

967
00:53:11,920 --> 00:53:13,680
of your own liberation,

968
00:53:13,760 --> 00:53:18,680
demanding a right
to be treated with respect, with dignity

969
00:53:18,760 --> 00:53:21,320
and not have those rights trampled upon

970
00:53:21,400 --> 00:53:24,200
by others who believe they have
the power to do so.

971
00:53:28,320 --> 00:53:31,840
Bob Marley passed,
and then this overwhelming sadness

972
00:53:31,960 --> 00:53:35,800
that many of us felt,
our prophet, our voice,

973
00:53:35,920 --> 00:53:38,160
our presence in the world.

974
00:53:38,240 --> 00:53:41,240
It was a very low point in my life,
actually, because he passed

975
00:53:41,320 --> 00:53:43,760
just before I started my term in prison.

976
00:53:44,760 --> 00:53:47,760
Some weeks after the Brixton uprising,
I was arrested.

977
00:53:47,840 --> 00:53:50,120
I appeared at Campbell Green Magistrates

978
00:53:50,200 --> 00:53:53,880
and I was given the term
of six months in prison,

979
00:53:53,960 --> 00:53:56,760
um, for assaulting a police officer,
resisting arrest.

980
00:53:56,880 --> 00:54:00,200
It was something that I didn’t
believe I would recover from.

981
00:54:00,280 --> 00:54:02,360
But I met one of the mentors of my life.

982
00:54:02,440 --> 00:54:06,360
You know, so really, my time there
was a blessing in many ways.

983
00:54:18,080 --> 00:54:20,120
- None of the uprisings

984
00:54:20,200 --> 00:54:22,640
are pointless, none of them.

985
00:54:22,720 --> 00:54:26,760
The uprising sets down a marker,
that in this generation,

986
00:54:26,880 --> 00:54:29,880
we butted heads with Babylon

987
00:54:29,960 --> 00:54:34,680
to let them know,
we need what everybody needs.

988
00:54:34,760 --> 00:54:36,840
So we have to put our marker down,

989
00:54:36,920 --> 00:54:40,440
whether the society
responds to it or not.

990
00:54:41,720 --> 00:54:45,040
For me, it's
"emancipate yourself from mental slavery."

991
00:54:45,120 --> 00:54:47,680
From mental slavery

992
00:54:52,440 --> 00:54:54,560
I mean that to me is... I'm gonna cry.

993
00:54:54,640 --> 00:54:56,560
The story of what we tried to do.

994
00:54:56,640 --> 00:55:00,200
The energy and the impetus of 1981.

995
00:55:02,480 --> 00:55:05,040
Just thinking of that song has made me
really emotional, I have to say.

996
00:55:07,440 --> 00:55:09,840
I think the consciousness that came about

997
00:55:09,920 --> 00:55:12,000
because of the Black people's
day of action

998
00:55:12,080 --> 00:55:13,480
is one success

999
00:55:13,560 --> 00:55:16,960
and although we couldn’t get justice
within the confines of the system,

1000
00:55:17,040 --> 00:55:19,080
I think in a sense, it was a victory

1001
00:55:19,160 --> 00:55:21,720
because if it wasn’t for
the Massacre Action Committee,

1002
00:55:21,840 --> 00:55:23,800
there is no doubt in my mind

1003
00:55:23,880 --> 00:55:28,280
that there would be three or four
young Black men, currently in prison,

1004
00:55:28,360 --> 00:55:31,320
having been charged with arson
for the New Cross Fire.

1005
00:55:31,400 --> 00:55:33,600
In the sense,
that we were able to prevent that,

1006
00:55:33,680 --> 00:55:34,960
that was a success.

1007
00:55:37,600 --> 00:55:42,440
Rosaline, Gerry, Steve,

1008
00:55:42,520 --> 00:55:44,680
Owen, Glenton.

1009
00:55:44,800 --> 00:55:46,760
That was my ground zero.

1010
00:55:46,840 --> 00:55:51,280
And that was my plan to start
rebuilding my life, from that day.

1011
00:55:52,880 --> 00:55:57,080
But it’s never... it’s never been
and it never will be the same again.

1012
00:55:57,160 --> 00:56:01,800
My younger brother Andrew
was the life of the house.

1013
00:56:03,400 --> 00:56:06,440
It’s hard being a survivor.
Especially the youngest survivor.

1014
00:56:06,520 --> 00:56:11,800
It is hard, because everybody’s focused on
the children who are not here.

1015
00:56:11,880 --> 00:56:13,960
But the kids who are here suffering...

1016
00:56:14,040 --> 00:56:18,400
I don’t think people really notice it.
Yet, you’re alive, that’s the thing.

1017
00:56:18,480 --> 00:56:21,400
But we’re the ones living it,
day in and day out.

1018
00:56:21,480 --> 00:56:24,080
I was unfortunate
to lose my brother Andrew

1019
00:56:24,160 --> 00:56:26,920
at a very young age,
and lose a lot of friends.

1020
00:56:27,000 --> 00:56:28,480
There were some friends
that I had at that party,

1021
00:56:28,560 --> 00:56:31,360
that I started secondary school with.

1022
00:56:31,440 --> 00:56:34,040
Tony, I mean, he escaped from there,

1023
00:56:34,120 --> 00:56:37,360
but after about a year and a half,
he... you know, it was really sad.

1024
00:56:39,760 --> 00:56:44,040
That fire had a massive,
massive impact on Tony.

1025
00:56:44,120 --> 00:56:47,840
Tony was alright before.
Tony was alright before.

1026
00:56:49,080 --> 00:56:52,480
And I know it sounds like ridiculous
and that, but, you know what?

1027
00:56:52,560 --> 00:56:54,800
I just want Andrew and my friends back.

1028
00:56:54,880 --> 00:56:57,440
So, trying to find out who done it

1029
00:56:57,520 --> 00:56:59,360
and we need to find them...

1030
00:56:59,440 --> 00:57:04,240
But whatever justice we get,
it still doesn’t bring back

1031
00:57:04,320 --> 00:57:06,200
Andrew and the rest.

1032
00:57:24,720 --> 00:57:27,360
I know that Andrew
is not going to come back.

1033
00:57:27,440 --> 00:57:31,600
And I probably will go to my grave
and I will not know who do that.

1034
00:57:31,720 --> 00:57:36,520
I will not know who start the fire,
how it start, or nothing.

1035
00:57:38,360 --> 00:57:42,120
I will have to...
I leave him at the foot of the cross.

1036
00:57:44,200 --> 00:57:45,400
What does that mean?

1037
00:57:49,040 --> 00:57:52,160
I... I forgive them and forget them.

1038
00:58:22,120 --> 00:58:24,040
Towards closure...

1039
00:58:24,120 --> 00:58:26,360
these totemic oaks.

1040
00:58:26,440 --> 00:58:31,600
Once fragile saplings,
taken root in hostile soil.

1041
00:58:31,680 --> 00:58:34,720
Now bear perennial witness

1042
00:58:34,800 --> 00:58:37,640
to spring's eternal son of hope.