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[bus engine rumbling]

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[tense music]

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[thuds]

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My God!

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Terrence, are you okay?

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[groans]

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Terrence.

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Oh, my God.

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[tense music continues]

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Terrence, was there a fight?
'Cause you're pretty swollen here.

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It's okay. You're safe here.

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[winces]

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Who did this to you?

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My father.

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Not again.

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We need to get Child Protective Services
in here right away.

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I'm Judy Sheindlin.

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Before I was a judge on TV,

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I was a judge in New York City
for 15 years.

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And a lawyer for 17 years before that.

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While serving on both sides of the bench,

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I learned that justice doesn't always
end up feeling...

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just.

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Sometimes, the impact of one decision
by a police officer, a lawyer,

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or even a judge, can change
the way justice is delivered.

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We're going to demonstrate this

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by taking landmark cases
from actual crimes

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committed by real people.

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And we'll recreate them
with our trial lawyers,

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and yours truly as the trial judge.

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While we're not going
to recreate the trials verbatim,

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the court's ultimate decisions
are accurate.

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It will be up to you
to decide whether the case was fair

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and the outcome just.

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[narrator]
Real cases, actual lawyers,

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surprising verdicts.

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Justice on Trial.

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This case is personal to me.

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That's because I actually touched on it
as a family court judge in 1988.

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When I thought about cases
we should profile in this series,

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this one was first on my list.

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The legal issue here is
diplomatic immunity.

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You see, the little boy in this case,
Terrence Karamba,

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was the son of a member
of the diplomatic mission

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from the country of Zimbabwe.
According to international law,

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high-level diplomats
are not subject to the laws

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of the foreign country where they serve.

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So, they cannot be prosecuted
for the crimes they commit.

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But what about the rights
of a child from Zimbabwe

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living in America
and being abused by his father?

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After Terrence Karamba was placed
into protective custody,

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and removed from his parents' home,
the first hearing on the State's demand

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that Terrence be released
from protective custody

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was heard by a Family Court Judge
in Queens,

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where the Karambas lived.

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That judge agreed with the State,

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and ordered the child immediately returned
to his father.

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The child's lawyer asked me
to reconsider that ruling

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in New York County where I worked,

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strongly suggesting that the child might
be harmed or even killed if returned.

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I reluctantly agreed.

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Even though New York County technically,
technically, had no jurisdiction.

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But I thought the optics
of the risk to the child

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were worth rattling the cage.

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Let's watch and see
how the forces of justice

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and the rule of law collide.

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Counsel, note your appearance, please.

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For the Petitioner, Terrence Karamba

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and the Child Protective Services,
I'm Dan Mentzer.

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Good morning, Your Honor.
Larry Bakman on behalf of the government,

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specifically, the State Department

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and by virtue of diplomatic immunity,

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-the father in this case, Floyd Karamba.
-[Judy] Thank you.

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This is a Child Protective proceeding

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under the Family Court Act
of the State of New York.

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Terrence Karamba is a nine-year-old boy

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who has allegedly been abused
by his father,

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who happens to be a diplomat
from the country of Zimbabwe.

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Child Protective Services
removed the child from his home

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and placed him in foster care.

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The State Department,
on behalf of the United States government

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as well as Mr. Karamba,
demanding immediate return of the child,

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alleging that this court
has no jurisdiction to hear this case

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based upon the Vienna Convention
and diplomatic immunity.

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Once I determine whether the child
is an abused child

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and likely to be further injured or worse
if returned to the family,

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I have to make a determination
whether or not the law mandates

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that I return the child to his father,

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or I can continue him in placement
in foster care

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until an entire trial is able to be held.

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So, that's where we are.
Am I correct, counselor?

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-That's correct, Your Honor.
-Yes, Your Honor.

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All right. Counsel,
do you wish to make an opening statement?

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-I do, Your Honor.
-[Judy] I'll hear you.

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As Your Honor noted,
the reason we are here today is

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because a nine-year-old boy
was brutally beaten by his own father.

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In this courtroom,
you're about to hear graphic testimony

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as to the nature
of these vicious assaults.

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You're gonna see just what this man did
to his own nine-year-old boy.

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In this courtroom,
you're gonna see those scars on his back,

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which someday may heal.

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But you're also going to hear
about those scars that may never heal.

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Those are the psychological scars

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that were inflicted on this boy
by this man.

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Now, the fact that
the perpetrator of these assaults

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happens to be a diplomat
that works for the Zimbabwe mission

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doesn't change the fact
that this young child's safety

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is in imminent danger if he were
to be brought back to his father.

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So, what we're asking Your Honor to do

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is to maintain the current system
where he's in foster care

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until at such time
where he can get the therapy

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where it's safe to return to his home,

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and this man will be prosecuted
for what he's done.

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-Thank you, Your Honor.
-Thank you. Mr. Bakman?

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[Bakman]
Yes, thank you, Your Honor.

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The problem with this case is
this court has no jurisdiction.

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There's something called
separation of powers.

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The Judiciary branch doesn't get to
determine foreign policy considerations.

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That's soley within the discretion of the
Executive branch and the State Department.

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Diplomatic immunity is
the cornerstone of diplomacy.

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We don't set that aside,
even for the welfare of one child.

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As cold and as callous as that sounds,

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it protects 13,000 diplomats
of the United States

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that are scattered around the globe.
This court does not have jurisdiction.

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I would move right now for this court
to dismiss this action.

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Thank you. I'm gonna hold your motion
in abeyance, sir,

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and start to take witnesses. Counsel?

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Thank you, Your Honor.

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The Petitioner calls Darren Bronson.

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-[Judy] Swear the witness, Kevin, please?
-[Kevin] Yes, ma'am.

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Raise your right hand, please.

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Do you swear to tell the truth
in these matters today?

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-I do.
-Thank you. Have a seat.

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-You may inquire.
-[Mentzer] Thanks, Your Honor.

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Now, Mr. Bronson,
were you working as a teacher

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at P.S. 178
on December first of last year?

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Yes.

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Mr. Bronson, did anything unusual happen
on that day

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with respect to one of your students?

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Yes. One of my students, Terrence,

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came into the classroom
that morning looking hurt.

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He had a bruise on his forehead
and his face was swollen.

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[school bell ringing]

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-Hey, hey, stop running.
-[children laugh]

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Stop running.

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[children chattering]

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[pensive music]

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Good morning, Mr. Karamba.
How we doing today?

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[Terrence]
Hi, Mr. Bronson.

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Hey. You okay, little man?

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[locker clangs]

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What happened, Terrence?

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Did you get in a fight
before school today?

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It's cool, you can tell me. I got you.

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I promise.

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[sighs] It was... my father.

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[Mentzer] Now, what did you do
when you saw him in that condition?

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I immediately took him
to the nurse's office.

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[Mentzer] And were you met with anyone
in the nurse's office?

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Yes, we were met
by the school's guidance counselor.

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Did anyone ask Terrence
how he got in that condition,

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bruised and cuts on his face?

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Yes, the nurse asked him what happened
and how did he get hurt.

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What did Terrence say?

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He said his father beat him.

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[Mentzer] Now, I'm gonna call your
attention, Mr. Bronson, to December 11th.

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Did anything again happen that brought
your attention to Terrence Karamba?

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Yes, yes, it did.

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I saw a bruise and a cut,
and he looked hurt.

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Oh, my God!

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[Mentzer]
What did you do with Terrence?

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Well, I took him back to the nurse,
and she called the Child Welfare office.

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-Thank you, Mr. Bronson.
-[Darren] Mm-hmm.

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You may inquire, sir.

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Yes. All right, Mr. Bronson,
as I understand it, sir, you're a teacher?

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-Yes.
-[Bakman] And you have received training

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with respect to mandated reporting
for child abuse, yes?

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Yes.

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[Bakman] When you saw the injuries
for the first time,

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did you comply with your mandated
reporting obligations and call CPS?

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No.

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And then, when you received
the child's statement,

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"my father beat me,"

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did you call CPS?

185
00:10:00,976 --> 00:10:02,644
No, not the first time.

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00:10:02,728 --> 00:10:05,897
You didn't call CPS and you
didn't call law enforcement, did you?

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00:10:05,981 --> 00:10:07,816
No, that's not my job.

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00:10:07,899 --> 00:10:11,528
All right. So, let's switch gears
to December 11th.

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00:10:11,611 --> 00:10:14,865
You observed Terrence injured again, yes?

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00:10:14,948 --> 00:10:15,949
Yes.

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00:10:16,033 --> 00:10:18,994
This time, you took him again
to the nurse,

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and more injuries were discovered.
Is that right?

193
00:10:21,788 --> 00:10:23,123
[Darren]
Yes, that's right.

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00:10:23,206 --> 00:10:25,751
[Bakman]
And this time, CPS was called. Yes?

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00:10:25,834 --> 00:10:26,835
[Darren]
Yes.

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00:10:26,918 --> 00:10:29,421
And the school called CPS in an effort

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00:10:29,504 --> 00:10:32,758
to avoid civil liability on your part.
Is that right?

198
00:10:32,841 --> 00:10:35,260
No, we did it because
it was the right thing to do.

199
00:10:35,344 --> 00:10:38,555
But you didn't do that on December first,
the right thing, did you?

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00:10:38,638 --> 00:10:40,891
That's argumentative, counsel.
Let's move on.

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00:10:40,974 --> 00:10:43,018
Witness is excused.
Thank you very much.

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00:10:43,101 --> 00:10:45,479
[contemplative music]

203
00:10:45,562 --> 00:10:47,439
Call your next witness, sir.

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00:10:47,522 --> 00:10:49,399
The Petitioner calls Taylor Neal.

205
00:10:52,319 --> 00:10:53,403
You may inquire, sir.

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00:10:53,487 --> 00:10:55,655
[Mentzer] Thank you, Your Honor.
Miss Neal, are you employed?

207
00:10:55,739 --> 00:10:57,115
-Yes.
-[Mentzer] And where do you work?

208
00:10:57,199 --> 00:10:59,368
I'm a school nurse at P.S. 178 in Queens.

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00:10:59,451 --> 00:11:01,703
Could you please describe for us
the circumstances

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00:11:01,787 --> 00:11:03,497
under which you first met Terrence?

211
00:11:03,580 --> 00:11:05,624
His teacher brought him in
on December first

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00:11:05,707 --> 00:11:07,209
because his face was bruised.

213
00:11:07,292 --> 00:11:09,127
Did you ask Terrence how he got bruised?

214
00:11:09,211 --> 00:11:11,505
Yes, I did. He said his father hit him.

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00:11:11,588 --> 00:11:12,923
[Mentzer]
And what did you do?

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00:11:13,006 --> 00:11:14,549
I immediately called
the guidance counselor,

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00:11:14,633 --> 00:11:16,468
and they called the parents.

218
00:11:16,551 --> 00:11:18,637
[Mentzer] Were you present
when the parents came to school?

219
00:11:18,720 --> 00:11:19,763
Yes.

220
00:11:19,846 --> 00:11:21,890
Mr. Karamba, thank you
for meeting with us today.

221
00:11:21,973 --> 00:11:24,476
It's attaché Karamba, actually.

222
00:11:25,977 --> 00:11:30,399
Of course. Representing
the Country of Zimbabwe, I believe.

223
00:11:30,482 --> 00:11:31,566
That is correct.

224
00:11:32,651 --> 00:11:34,486
We're here to talk about your son.

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00:11:34,569 --> 00:11:36,530
[tense music]

226
00:11:36,613 --> 00:11:38,323
What has he done this time?

227
00:11:38,407 --> 00:11:39,950
It's what you did, Mr. Karamba.

228
00:11:42,077 --> 00:11:44,287
This morning, Terrence came to school

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00:11:44,371 --> 00:11:47,040
with a noticeably bruised
and swollen face.

230
00:11:47,124 --> 00:11:51,503
And he indicated to a teacher
that the person who inflicted these wounds

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00:11:51,586 --> 00:11:52,671
was his father.

232
00:11:54,214 --> 00:11:55,632
And what of it?

233
00:11:55,715 --> 00:11:56,842
What of it?

234
00:11:57,843 --> 00:11:59,428
So, you admit it, then.

235
00:11:59,511 --> 00:12:03,265
Yes. I admit to disciplining my son.

236
00:12:03,348 --> 00:12:06,101
That is what a parent is supposed to do.

237
00:12:06,184 --> 00:12:07,853
When a child needs correction,

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00:12:07,936 --> 00:12:10,772
it is a parent's responsibility
to provide it.

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00:12:10,856 --> 00:12:15,193
Striking a person repeatedly in the face
is considered assault in this country.

240
00:12:15,277 --> 00:12:19,656
And it's our responsibility at this school
to protect the children under our care.

241
00:12:19,739 --> 00:12:24,202
Assault? No, this is not assault.
It is love.

242
00:12:24,286 --> 00:12:29,082
This is what a parent does
who cares about their child in my country.

243
00:12:29,166 --> 00:12:31,751
You see, you do not understand our ways.

244
00:12:31,835 --> 00:12:34,296
This is how my father raised me.

245
00:12:34,379 --> 00:12:37,007
And instead of becoming a criminal
or a drug addict,

246
00:12:37,090 --> 00:12:39,301
like you are teaching him to be
in this school,

247
00:12:39,384 --> 00:12:43,013
I became the diplomatic attaché
to the United States of America.

248
00:12:43,096 --> 00:12:46,016
Well, here in America, sir,
it's child abuse.

249
00:12:46,099 --> 00:12:47,642
And if this ever happens again,

250
00:12:47,726 --> 00:12:50,187
we will immediately call
Child Protective Services,

251
00:12:50,270 --> 00:12:52,731
and they will remove Terrence
from your home.

252
00:12:52,814 --> 00:12:54,524
[tense music]

253
00:12:56,234 --> 00:12:58,737
Was there a time
that you saw Terrence Karamba again,

254
00:12:58,820 --> 00:13:00,197
later on that month?

255
00:13:00,280 --> 00:13:02,491
Yes, I saw him about ten days after that.

256
00:13:02,574 --> 00:13:04,618
And what happened
when you saw Terrence Karamba?

257
00:13:04,701 --> 00:13:07,829
[Taylor] His teacher brought him in again
because he had bruising to his face.

258
00:13:07,913 --> 00:13:10,248
As I took him to my office,
I put my hand on his back

259
00:13:10,332 --> 00:13:13,418
and he visibly winced.
That's when I knew something was wrong.

260
00:13:13,502 --> 00:13:16,087
And I asked him to remove his sweatshirt
and his t-shirt.

261
00:13:16,171 --> 00:13:18,632
And I was absolutely horrified
by what I saw.

262
00:13:18,715 --> 00:13:20,675
Miss Neal, if you can
try and tell the judge

263
00:13:20,759 --> 00:13:23,845
exactly what you saw
when you removed Terrence's shirt.

264
00:13:23,929 --> 00:13:25,764
He had scars and welts on his back.

265
00:13:25,847 --> 00:13:28,725
[Mentzer]
After observing those scars on his back,

266
00:13:28,808 --> 00:13:30,644
what did you and
the guidance counselor do?

267
00:13:30,727 --> 00:13:33,104
-We immediately called CPS.
-[Mentzer] Thank you, Miss Neal.

268
00:13:33,188 --> 00:13:34,523
-Counselor?
-[Bakman] Now, Miss Neal,

269
00:13:34,606 --> 00:13:36,399
-December first...
-[Taylor] Yes.

270
00:13:36,483 --> 00:13:38,443
...that's when you first saw Terrence.
Is that right?

271
00:13:38,527 --> 00:13:39,528
Yes, sir.

272
00:13:39,611 --> 00:13:41,530
[Bakman]
And there were bruises about his face?

273
00:13:41,613 --> 00:13:44,366
-Yes.
-[Bakman] And when you saw the bruises,

274
00:13:44,449 --> 00:13:46,660
you then asked the child
how that happened?

275
00:13:46,743 --> 00:13:49,204
And the child said, my father beat me,
or my father hit me?

276
00:13:49,287 --> 00:13:50,288
Yes.

277
00:13:50,372 --> 00:13:52,499
[Bakman] And of course,
as a mandated reporter,

278
00:13:52,582 --> 00:13:54,834
you called CPS, did you not?

279
00:13:54,918 --> 00:13:56,878
Not the first time, no.
I called the guidance counselor.

280
00:13:56,962 --> 00:14:00,173
So, nobody at the school,
as far as you knew,

281
00:14:00,257 --> 00:14:03,927
on December first, called CPS, correct?

282
00:14:04,010 --> 00:14:05,136
Correct.

283
00:14:05,220 --> 00:14:09,349
And you all sent the child home
with the abuser on December first.

284
00:14:09,432 --> 00:14:10,725
Do I have that right?

285
00:14:10,809 --> 00:14:14,187
Yes, sir. His father said he was a
diplomat and there was nothing we can do.

286
00:14:14,271 --> 00:14:16,314
[Bakman] And on December 11th,

287
00:14:16,398 --> 00:14:18,483
the child was brought in again
with injuries?

288
00:14:18,567 --> 00:14:19,568
Yes.

289
00:14:19,651 --> 00:14:24,364
Any reports that you wrote
to forward to CPS on this day?

290
00:14:24,447 --> 00:14:26,408
-No.
-[Bakman] No further questions.

291
00:14:26,491 --> 00:14:27,951
Witness is now excused.

292
00:14:28,034 --> 00:14:29,452
Thank you, Your Honor.

293
00:14:29,536 --> 00:14:31,329
Call your next witness, Mr. Mentzer.

294
00:14:31,413 --> 00:14:33,331
The Petitioner calls Jaime Gilbert.

295
00:14:38,169 --> 00:14:40,130
-You may inquire, sir.
-[Mentzer] Thank you, Your Honor.

296
00:14:40,213 --> 00:14:41,548
Miss Gilbert, where are you employed?

297
00:14:41,631 --> 00:14:44,175
I am a social worker
for the city of New York.

298
00:14:44,259 --> 00:14:46,636
And what does a social worker
for the city of New York do?

299
00:14:46,720 --> 00:14:50,807
First, we investigate allegations
of child abuse in the home.

300
00:14:50,890 --> 00:14:52,559
Then, if we think it's warranted,

301
00:14:52,642 --> 00:14:57,063
we remove the abused children from
the home and place them into foster care.

302
00:14:57,147 --> 00:14:58,732
Miss Gilbert, I want
to call your attention

303
00:14:58,815 --> 00:15:00,734
to December 11th of this past year.

304
00:15:00,817 --> 00:15:02,777
Did you get involved
with the investigation

305
00:15:02,861 --> 00:15:07,198
into an allegation of abuse involving
an individual named Terrence Karamba?

306
00:15:07,282 --> 00:15:08,366
Yes, I did.

307
00:15:08,450 --> 00:15:12,495
And what did you observe, if anything,
as to the physical condition of Terrence?

308
00:15:12,579 --> 00:15:15,081
Terrence had bruises on his face.

309
00:15:15,165 --> 00:15:21,796
He had about 15 to 20 scars
in various stages of healing on his back.

310
00:15:21,880 --> 00:15:25,634
Miss Gilbert, did you ask Terrence
how he got those injuries?

311
00:15:25,717 --> 00:15:26,801
Yes, I did.

312
00:15:26,885 --> 00:15:28,762
And what did Terrence tell you

313
00:15:28,845 --> 00:15:31,014
as to how he got those injuries
you're talking about?

314
00:15:31,097 --> 00:15:35,685
Terrence told me that his dad
had been beating him on a regular basis.

315
00:15:35,769 --> 00:15:39,189
I'm sorry. I'll eat all my dinner
next time.

316
00:15:39,272 --> 00:15:43,276
This is the consequence
of disrespecting your mother.

317
00:15:43,360 --> 00:15:45,403
[tense music]

318
00:15:47,656 --> 00:15:49,699
-[whip cracks]
-[Terrence cries out]

319
00:15:49,783 --> 00:15:51,993
-[whip cracks]
-[grunts] Stop!

320
00:15:53,328 --> 00:15:55,163
-[whip cracks]
-[grunts]

321
00:16:02,003 --> 00:16:04,964
Did Terrence tell you any other places
that he had been hit

322
00:16:05,048 --> 00:16:07,550
by his father other than on the back?

323
00:16:07,634 --> 00:16:09,594
[Jaime] He said
he would sometimes hit him in the head.

324
00:16:09,678 --> 00:16:13,223
He would hit him with his fists
and sometimes a belt.

325
00:16:13,306 --> 00:16:15,558
It's just that I don't like cabbage.

326
00:16:15,642 --> 00:16:18,895
-[choking]
-[indistinct]

327
00:16:18,978 --> 00:16:20,772
[Terrence gasps]

328
00:16:20,855 --> 00:16:23,024
What do you have to say for yourself?

329
00:16:25,694 --> 00:16:28,405
-[punches]
-[grunts] I can't hear you!

330
00:16:32,200 --> 00:16:33,493
I'm sorry.

331
00:16:33,576 --> 00:16:35,620
[crying]

332
00:16:42,794 --> 00:16:44,713
[Mentzer] Did you examine Terrence's body

333
00:16:44,796 --> 00:16:46,881
with an eye toward recording
those injuries?

334
00:16:46,965 --> 00:16:50,051
I examined his body and I took pictures.

335
00:16:50,135 --> 00:16:51,553
Your Honor, if I may approach?

336
00:16:51,636 --> 00:16:52,971
[Judy]
You may approach the witness.

337
00:16:53,054 --> 00:16:57,350
I'm going to show you what's been
previously marked Petitioner's A, B and C.

338
00:16:57,434 --> 00:16:59,769
Three photographs. And I'd ask you
just to take a look at it.

339
00:16:59,853 --> 00:17:01,438
When you're done, please, look up.

340
00:17:01,521 --> 00:17:03,356
[tense music]

341
00:17:04,607 --> 00:17:07,235
Miss Gilbert, do you recognize
those pictures?

342
00:17:07,318 --> 00:17:08,361
Yes, I do.

343
00:17:08,445 --> 00:17:10,447
What do you recognize those photographs
to be of?

344
00:17:10,530 --> 00:17:12,365
They are of Terrence's body.

345
00:17:12,449 --> 00:17:17,036
Miss Gilbert, when Terrence told you
that his father had bound his wrists,

346
00:17:17,120 --> 00:17:20,081
prior to hanging him
from this pipe in the basement,

347
00:17:20,165 --> 00:17:23,877
did you see any physical evidence
of that on his wrists?

348
00:17:23,960 --> 00:17:26,379
Yes, there were scars on his wrists.

349
00:17:26,463 --> 00:17:31,426
When Terrence told you
that he had been choked by his father,

350
00:17:31,509 --> 00:17:33,595
did you see any physical evidence of that?

351
00:17:33,678 --> 00:17:36,014
Yes, I did. There were marks on his neck.

352
00:17:36,097 --> 00:17:39,434
[Mentzer] Now Miss Gilbert,
after you spoke with Terrence,

353
00:17:39,517 --> 00:17:44,189
did you make a determination as to
Terrence Karamba's safety and well-being?

354
00:17:44,272 --> 00:17:46,024
-I did.
-And what was that?

355
00:17:46,107 --> 00:17:49,235
I determined that Terrence was
in imminent danger to his welfare

356
00:17:49,319 --> 00:17:51,571
if he stayed living with his parents.

357
00:17:51,654 --> 00:17:53,990
Thank you, Miss Gilbert.
I have no further questions.

358
00:17:54,073 --> 00:17:55,742
-Cross.
-[Bakman] So, Miss Gilbert,

359
00:17:55,825 --> 00:17:57,702
that's the standard, isn't it?

360
00:17:57,786 --> 00:18:01,581
Imminent risk of serious bodily injury
or death.

361
00:18:01,664 --> 00:18:03,333
That equates to removal.

362
00:18:03,416 --> 00:18:04,542
Yes, absolutely.

363
00:18:04,626 --> 00:18:06,544
[Bakman]
Now, you made this determination

364
00:18:06,628 --> 00:18:10,757
based upon your observations
of the child's injuries, yes?

365
00:18:10,840 --> 00:18:11,883
Yes.

366
00:18:11,966 --> 00:18:17,180
And you are aware that Terrence's father
had diplomatic immunity. Is that right?

367
00:18:17,263 --> 00:18:18,431
I was informed.

368
00:18:18,515 --> 00:18:20,308
[Bakman]
When you were informed of that,

369
00:18:20,391 --> 00:18:24,562
you made the conscious decision
of not calling law enforcement

370
00:18:24,646 --> 00:18:26,564
because of the immunity. Is that right?

371
00:18:26,648 --> 00:18:31,986
I had him removed from his home
whether he was a diplomat or not.

372
00:18:32,070 --> 00:18:35,281
My obligation is to remove the child
out of danger,

373
00:18:35,365 --> 00:18:36,866
and that is what I did.

374
00:18:36,950 --> 00:18:38,368
No further questions.

375
00:18:38,451 --> 00:18:40,662
[Judy] Thank you very much.
The witness is excused.

376
00:18:40,745 --> 00:18:41,996
Mr. Mentzer?

377
00:18:42,080 --> 00:18:45,291
Petitioner calls Dr. Riley Hills.

378
00:18:49,003 --> 00:18:50,547
You may inquire, Mr. Mentzer.

379
00:18:50,630 --> 00:18:52,257
Dr. Hills, what type of work do you do?

380
00:18:52,340 --> 00:18:54,300
I am a board certified child psychologist.

381
00:18:54,384 --> 00:18:57,387
[Mentzer] And what does
a board certified child psychologist do?

382
00:18:57,470 --> 00:19:01,891
I treat children who have been removed
from the home due to allegations of abuse.

383
00:19:01,975 --> 00:19:04,060
[Mentzer] Have you,
during the course of your employment,

384
00:19:04,143 --> 00:19:06,020
-treated a boy named Terrence?
-Yes.

385
00:19:06,104 --> 00:19:10,316
Did Terrence describe for you any abuse
he has received by his family?

386
00:19:10,400 --> 00:19:14,279
He did. He said that his father
would beat him with his fists,

387
00:19:14,362 --> 00:19:17,073
with belts and electrical cord.

388
00:19:17,156 --> 00:19:21,786
Now, did Terrence tell you
what the rest of his family was doing

389
00:19:21,870 --> 00:19:24,372
while his dad began to whip him?

390
00:19:25,456 --> 00:19:26,916
[Dr. Hills]
He told me that his father

391
00:19:27,000 --> 00:19:30,378
made his mother and
his sisters watch and ridicule him.

392
00:19:30,461 --> 00:19:34,257
Is the physical damage
that you observed in Terrence

393
00:19:34,340 --> 00:19:37,635
the most important thing to you
as his treating therapist?

394
00:19:37,719 --> 00:19:39,512
No, it's the psychological damage.

395
00:19:39,596 --> 00:19:40,638
And what do you mean by that?

396
00:19:40,722 --> 00:19:42,599
Well, he believes
that his family hates him.

397
00:19:42,682 --> 00:19:44,475
[Mentzer]
Now, at some point,

398
00:19:44,559 --> 00:19:46,686
you had to tell Terrence
that he had to go back home.

399
00:19:46,769 --> 00:19:49,731
-[Dr. Hills] Yes.
-Now, when he actually went back

400
00:19:49,814 --> 00:19:52,233
to have this meeting
to go back to his parents,

401
00:19:52,317 --> 00:19:54,736
did he react in any way
in the car ride over?

402
00:19:54,819 --> 00:19:58,114
He did. He tried to jump out of the car
while it was moving.

403
00:19:58,197 --> 00:19:59,699
And when he got to the building

404
00:19:59,782 --> 00:20:03,161
where he was supposed to be turned over
to his parents, did he do anything?

405
00:20:03,244 --> 00:20:05,622
He attempted to jump
out of a second story window.

406
00:20:05,705 --> 00:20:08,207
-[Mentzer] To avoid seeing his parents?
-[Dr. Hills] That is correct.

407
00:20:08,291 --> 00:20:11,252
[Mentzer] And did you make a determination
as to whether it's safe

408
00:20:11,336 --> 00:20:13,880
for Terrence to return to his parents now?

409
00:20:13,963 --> 00:20:15,840
-Yes.
-[Mentzer] And what is that determination?

410
00:20:15,924 --> 00:20:17,675
That it is not safe to return him.

411
00:20:17,759 --> 00:20:18,760
Thank you, Dr. Hills.

412
00:20:18,843 --> 00:20:19,969
[Judy]
You may inquire, sir.

413
00:20:20,053 --> 00:20:23,723
Now, in terms of your duties,

414
00:20:23,806 --> 00:20:28,978
you treat children of abuse and
you attempt to protect them.

415
00:20:29,062 --> 00:20:30,355
-Is that right?
-Yes.

416
00:20:30,438 --> 00:20:35,068
[Bakman] And in this case,
would you say that removal from the home

417
00:20:35,151 --> 00:20:38,029
is equally damaging to the child

418
00:20:38,112 --> 00:20:41,491
as is the physical trauma
inflicted by the father?

419
00:20:41,574 --> 00:20:43,284
I mean, it depends on the relationship,

420
00:20:43,368 --> 00:20:46,204
and we deal with it
on a case-by-case basis, so.

421
00:20:46,287 --> 00:20:48,915
And what specifically have you done

422
00:20:48,998 --> 00:20:53,795
with respect to reunification therapy
for Terrence and the family?

423
00:20:53,878 --> 00:20:57,173
We've made attempts to reunite Terrence
with his mother,

424
00:20:57,256 --> 00:20:58,675
but he's still in fear of her.

425
00:20:58,758 --> 00:21:00,843
-[Bakman] How many attempts?
-[Dr. Hills] Two attempts.

426
00:21:00,927 --> 00:21:02,011
[Bakman] And in your opinion,

427
00:21:02,095 --> 00:21:04,764
given the circumstances,
that's sufficient?

428
00:21:04,847 --> 00:21:06,724
-Yes.
-No further questions.

429
00:21:06,808 --> 00:21:08,309
i[Judy]
The witness is excused.

430
00:21:09,727 --> 00:21:11,104
Is that your final witness, sir?

431
00:21:11,187 --> 00:21:13,439
Yes, Your Honor, the Petitioner rests.

432
00:21:13,523 --> 00:21:16,150
[Judy] Do you want to renew
your motion to dismiss, counselor?

433
00:21:16,234 --> 00:21:18,236
I would, Your Honor,
at this point in time.

434
00:21:18,319 --> 00:21:19,988
Now it's denied.

435
00:21:20,071 --> 00:21:22,323
The government's demand
that the case be dismissed

436
00:21:22,407 --> 00:21:25,868
because the father and child
were protected by diplomatic immunity,

437
00:21:25,952 --> 00:21:27,453
was just denied by me.

438
00:21:27,537 --> 00:21:30,832
The State, which was demanding
the immediate return

439
00:21:30,915 --> 00:21:34,961
of the child to the father, was
then forced to continue with the hearing.

440
00:21:35,044 --> 00:21:36,504
Please call your first witness.

441
00:21:36,587 --> 00:21:40,216
Yes, Your Honor. At this time,
I would call Kirby Davidson to the stand.

442
00:21:41,926 --> 00:21:44,470
-Mr. Bakman, you may inquire, sir.
-[Bakman] Thank you, Your Honor.

443
00:21:44,554 --> 00:21:45,888
Mr. Davidson, if you would,

444
00:21:45,972 --> 00:21:48,725
can you please tell the court
your current profession or occupation?

445
00:21:48,808 --> 00:21:51,227
I work with the United States
State Department.

446
00:21:51,310 --> 00:21:54,313
[Bakman] And with respect
to that profession, sir,

447
00:21:54,397 --> 00:21:56,107
tell the court, if you would,

448
00:21:56,190 --> 00:21:59,027
what kind of training you've received
and what it's encompassed.

449
00:21:59,110 --> 00:22:02,822
I've received extensive training
in the areas of diplomatic immunity,

450
00:22:02,905 --> 00:22:06,701
uh, as it was afforded
in the Vienna Treaty of 1961.

451
00:22:06,784 --> 00:22:08,369
Can you explain what that is?

452
00:22:08,453 --> 00:22:10,413
Well, diplomatic immunity was established

453
00:22:10,496 --> 00:22:14,125
so that sending states could send
their diplomats and be assured

454
00:22:14,208 --> 00:22:18,212
that they would be free from criminal
and civil prosecution in those states.

455
00:22:18,296 --> 00:22:22,050
Let me ask you this: How many diplomats
and their families do we have abroad

456
00:22:22,133 --> 00:22:23,801
representing the United States?

457
00:22:23,885 --> 00:22:25,762
Upwards of 13,000.

458
00:22:25,845 --> 00:22:31,225
And we are concerned with upholding
the provisions of the Vienna Convention

459
00:22:31,309 --> 00:22:34,729
for protection of those diplomats.
Is that right?

460
00:22:34,812 --> 00:22:35,813
That is correct.

461
00:22:35,897 --> 00:22:38,649
[Bakman]
Now, in this particular case,

462
00:22:38,733 --> 00:22:43,446
the nation of Zimbabwe itself
has sent the State Department

463
00:22:43,529 --> 00:22:47,075
a request to have the child
returned to the father

464
00:22:47,158 --> 00:22:50,244
and returned to the country of origin.
Is that correct?

465
00:22:50,328 --> 00:22:51,370
That is correct.

466
00:22:51,454 --> 00:22:56,501
Does diplomatic immunity trump
this court's decision

467
00:22:56,584 --> 00:22:59,087
to keep this child in protective custody?

468
00:22:59,170 --> 00:23:00,838
-It does, yes.
-Why is that?

469
00:23:00,922 --> 00:23:05,051
Well, because the things we need
to protect are diplomats around the world.

470
00:23:05,134 --> 00:23:09,055
So, hypothetically,
if our foreign diplomats were say,

471
00:23:09,138 --> 00:23:14,060
in a country that enforced headscarves
for women,

472
00:23:14,143 --> 00:23:18,189
and one of our diplomats
or their family members

473
00:23:18,272 --> 00:23:22,026
were to go out without a headscarf,
they could be arrested and prosecuted.

474
00:23:22,110 --> 00:23:24,445
And we don't want that.
So, we have to afford the same here.

475
00:23:24,529 --> 00:23:27,740
We can't break the rules.
This was agreed to in 1961

476
00:23:27,824 --> 00:23:29,659
in the Vienna Treaty
and we need to adhere to it.

477
00:23:29,742 --> 00:23:31,160
No further questions.

478
00:23:31,244 --> 00:23:32,411
Any questions?

479
00:23:32,495 --> 00:23:34,330
-[Mentzer] Oh, yes, Your Honor.
-Okay.

480
00:23:34,413 --> 00:23:36,874
Mr. Davidson, you first got involved
in this case

481
00:23:36,958 --> 00:23:40,253
by receiving a call
from the Zimbabwe mission

482
00:23:40,336 --> 00:23:45,591
notifying you that the son
of one of their diplomats was abducted.

483
00:23:45,675 --> 00:23:46,676
That is correct.

484
00:23:46,759 --> 00:23:49,387
And you of course, as a representative
from the State Department,

485
00:23:49,470 --> 00:23:52,640
wanted to find out what happened.
Why was this child removed?

486
00:23:52,723 --> 00:23:53,724
Yes.

487
00:23:53,808 --> 00:23:55,810
[Mentzer] You conducted
your own investigation, right?

488
00:23:55,893 --> 00:23:56,894
That's correct.

489
00:23:56,978 --> 00:23:59,355
[Mentzer] And you found
that he was removed for his own safety

490
00:23:59,438 --> 00:24:03,901
because the boy had accused his father
of stripping him down naked

491
00:24:03,985 --> 00:24:08,197
and beating him over the naked back
with an extension cord.

492
00:24:08,281 --> 00:24:09,782
You learned that to be the case, right?

493
00:24:09,866 --> 00:24:10,867
Yes, I did.

494
00:24:10,950 --> 00:24:13,369
And you found
that those child protective workers

495
00:24:13,452 --> 00:24:17,373
felt that his life was in danger
if he continued to live with his father.

496
00:24:17,456 --> 00:24:19,041
-Yes.
-[Mentzer] That's why they removed him.

497
00:24:19,125 --> 00:24:21,127
-Yes.
-[Mentzer] And you further found

498
00:24:21,210 --> 00:24:25,047
that the mission of Zimbabwe demanded

499
00:24:25,131 --> 00:24:28,885
that we immediately release him
back to his family.

500
00:24:28,968 --> 00:24:35,933
And if he didn't, they reserved the right
to retaliate against our diplomats.

501
00:24:36,017 --> 00:24:37,935
-That is correct.
-You got a crisis on your hands.

502
00:24:38,019 --> 00:24:39,061
Yes, we do.

503
00:24:39,145 --> 00:24:41,022
[Mentzer]
Your job, how do we deal with this?

504
00:24:41,105 --> 00:24:42,899
And you found out you had options.

505
00:24:42,982 --> 00:24:46,402
One of those options was
you can expel the diplomat.

506
00:24:46,485 --> 00:24:49,780
The problem is with that option,
you expel the diplomat,

507
00:24:49,864 --> 00:24:53,826
you gotta send the child back to the home
of the man who had been brutalizing him.

508
00:24:53,910 --> 00:24:54,994
-Right?
-[Kirby] Yes.

509
00:24:55,077 --> 00:24:59,290
You had another option.
You could have simply asked Zimbabwe

510
00:24:59,373 --> 00:25:01,834
to waive immunity in this case.

511
00:25:02,919 --> 00:25:03,961
Yes.

512
00:25:04,045 --> 00:25:07,298
[Mentzer] Had you asked,
and they gave you immunity,

513
00:25:07,381 --> 00:25:11,552
you could have kept this child
in foster care.

514
00:25:11,636 --> 00:25:12,845
-Right?
-That is correct.

515
00:25:12,929 --> 00:25:18,226
So, we never even asked them
to waive immunity, did we?

516
00:25:18,309 --> 00:25:19,310
No.

517
00:25:19,393 --> 00:25:23,689
In fact, the representative from Zimbabwe
was specifically asked

518
00:25:23,773 --> 00:25:29,028
what would happen if this judge
gives them what you're asking for

519
00:25:29,111 --> 00:25:31,447
and returns the child to Zimbabwe?

520
00:25:31,530 --> 00:25:36,744
What the representative from Zimbabwe said
when specifically asked

521
00:25:36,827 --> 00:25:43,334
whether Terrence would go back to the man
who hung him up and whipped him,

522
00:25:43,417 --> 00:25:45,211
-they said, "no comment."
-[Kirby] Correct.

523
00:25:45,294 --> 00:25:49,882
The truth is that if this court gives you
what you're asking for,

524
00:25:49,966 --> 00:25:52,134
and sends this boy back to Zimbabwe,

525
00:25:52,218 --> 00:25:54,262
you really don't know
what's gonna happen to him.

526
00:25:54,345 --> 00:25:56,013
-No.
-[Mentzer] Thank you.

527
00:25:56,097 --> 00:25:57,640
-Witness is excused.
-[Kirby] Thank you.

528
00:25:57,723 --> 00:25:58,557
Next witness, please.

529
00:25:58,641 --> 00:26:02,353
I would call Floyd Karamba
to the stand, Your Honor.

530
00:26:02,436 --> 00:26:04,146
[contemplative music]

531
00:26:06,899 --> 00:26:08,276
You may inquire, sir.

532
00:26:08,359 --> 00:26:11,529
[Bakman] Thank you, Your Honor.
All right. Mr. Karamba,

533
00:26:11,612 --> 00:26:14,115
what is your current profession
or occupation, sir?

534
00:26:14,198 --> 00:26:18,577
I am a diplomat representing
the Republic of Zimbabwe.

535
00:26:18,661 --> 00:26:19,662
Do you have children?

536
00:26:19,745 --> 00:26:20,788
-[Floyd] I do.
-How many?

537
00:26:20,871 --> 00:26:23,124
-Three.
-[Bakman] And their ages?

538
00:26:23,207 --> 00:26:27,837
I have a nine-year-old son
and two daughters, ages seven and three.

539
00:26:27,920 --> 00:26:32,842
[Bakman] Your boy and your older daughter
go to school in Queens. Is that correct?

540
00:26:32,925 --> 00:26:34,260
That is correct.

541
00:26:34,343 --> 00:26:40,349
And tell me, on December first, were you
called to come down to the school?

542
00:26:40,433 --> 00:26:43,477
-Yes.
-[Bakman] And when you got to the school,

543
00:26:43,561 --> 00:26:45,730
-were you questioned?
-[Floyd] Yes.

544
00:26:45,813 --> 00:26:48,566
And what kind of questions
were asked of you?

545
00:26:48,649 --> 00:26:54,447
They asked me if I knew how my son
got these, uh, bruises on his face.

546
00:26:54,530 --> 00:26:57,366
And they asked me if I beat my son.

547
00:26:57,450 --> 00:26:59,618
[Bakman] And what was your response
to that question?

548
00:26:59,702 --> 00:27:01,203
My response was "no."

549
00:27:01,287 --> 00:27:06,584
And did they in fact tell you
that Terrence stated to them,

550
00:27:06,667 --> 00:27:08,544
my father beats me.

551
00:27:08,627 --> 00:27:09,837
Yes.

552
00:27:09,920 --> 00:27:11,672
Do you discipline your son?

553
00:27:11,756 --> 00:27:14,133
Yes. I spank my son

554
00:27:14,216 --> 00:27:16,886
on his rear-end, above his clothing.

555
00:27:18,387 --> 00:27:22,433
So, they let you take the children
home with you. Is that right?

556
00:27:22,516 --> 00:27:23,601
Yes, they did.

557
00:27:23,684 --> 00:27:26,645
[Bakman] Now, ten days later,
did you get another call?

558
00:27:26,729 --> 00:27:27,730
[Floyd]
Yes.

559
00:27:27,813 --> 00:27:31,942
And on December 11th,
were you again confronted by the school

560
00:27:32,026 --> 00:27:34,987
with allegations
of additional child abuse?

561
00:27:35,071 --> 00:27:36,072
Yes.

562
00:27:36,155 --> 00:27:37,365
And what did you say?

563
00:27:37,448 --> 00:27:40,743
I told them that I did not beat my son.

564
00:27:40,826 --> 00:27:43,412
And no one, between December first,

565
00:27:43,496 --> 00:27:49,251
when the school allegedly
heard Terrence say, my dad beats me,

566
00:27:49,335 --> 00:27:51,629
and they saw bruises on his face,

567
00:27:51,712 --> 00:27:56,175
no law enforcement, no police officer
came knocking and saying,

568
00:27:56,258 --> 00:27:59,387
we are here to investigate
child abuse allegations.

569
00:27:59,470 --> 00:28:00,471
No.

570
00:28:00,554 --> 00:28:03,224
And CPS didn't come down either,
did they?

571
00:28:03,307 --> 00:28:04,308
No, they did not.

572
00:28:04,392 --> 00:28:08,687
On December 11th, did things change?
Was your son taken away from you?

573
00:28:08,771 --> 00:28:09,772
Yes.

574
00:28:09,855 --> 00:28:12,691
Have you since demanded
the city of New York

575
00:28:12,775 --> 00:28:15,111
-to return your son to you?
-Yes.

576
00:28:15,194 --> 00:28:17,363
[Bakman]
Now, in your culture, sir,

577
00:28:17,446 --> 00:28:21,867
does that culture allow and permit
corporal punishment of a child?

578
00:28:21,951 --> 00:28:23,536
-Yes.
-[Bakman] In what way?

579
00:28:23,619 --> 00:28:28,666
You can do a number of things,
but spanking a child above the clothing

580
00:28:28,749 --> 00:28:30,084
is one of those methods.

581
00:28:30,167 --> 00:28:35,005
And were you in fact disciplined
in that manner by your father growing up?

582
00:28:35,089 --> 00:28:36,215
Yes, I was.

583
00:28:36,298 --> 00:28:38,717
[Bakman]
And when you discipline him,

584
00:28:38,801 --> 00:28:41,512
do you tie him up to a pipe
in your basement

585
00:28:41,595 --> 00:28:43,681
and then whip him with an electrical cord?

586
00:28:43,764 --> 00:28:44,849
No.

587
00:28:44,932 --> 00:28:48,769
Do you believe, sir,
that if Terrence is returned to you

588
00:28:48,853 --> 00:28:53,482
he is in imminent danger
of serious bodily injury or death,

589
00:28:53,566 --> 00:28:55,943
-if he's returned to you?
-Not at all.

590
00:28:56,026 --> 00:28:57,236
[Bakman]
No further questions.

591
00:28:57,319 --> 00:28:58,362
You may inquire, sir.

592
00:28:59,363 --> 00:29:02,825
Mr. Karamba, did I hear that right?
That you did nothing more

593
00:29:02,908 --> 00:29:07,079
than spank your son Terrence
over the clothes on the behind?

594
00:29:07,163 --> 00:29:08,956
Yes, this is where he was struck, yes.

595
00:29:09,039 --> 00:29:12,460
[Mentzer] So now, you've heard
the testimony of his teacher

596
00:29:12,543 --> 00:29:16,672
who said that he observed
cuts and bruising to his face, right?

597
00:29:16,755 --> 00:29:17,798
Yes.

598
00:29:17,882 --> 00:29:21,093
[Mentzer] You've heard
the testimony of Taylor Neal,

599
00:29:21,177 --> 00:29:26,390
who testified that Terrence said
you caused those injuries to his face.

600
00:29:26,474 --> 00:29:27,516
Yes.

601
00:29:27,600 --> 00:29:33,147
And you've also heard the testimony
of Miss Gilbert, the social worker,

602
00:29:33,230 --> 00:29:37,902
who testified that Terrence told her
that you strung him up naked

603
00:29:37,985 --> 00:29:40,404
down in the basement
and beat him with an extension cord.

604
00:29:40,488 --> 00:29:41,572
-Right?
-Yes.

605
00:29:41,655 --> 00:29:44,074
But that's all a pack of lies?

606
00:29:44,158 --> 00:29:46,994
I believe it to be all lies, yes.

607
00:29:47,077 --> 00:29:52,666
So, your nine-year-old son lied
to his teacher when he said you beat him?

608
00:29:52,750 --> 00:29:55,085
Unfortunately, Terrence does lie.

609
00:29:55,169 --> 00:29:58,339
Now, you talked to this court
about corporal punishment.

610
00:29:58,422 --> 00:30:02,718
You said, in your country, this is
a method for disciplining children.

611
00:30:02,801 --> 00:30:03,802
Yes.

612
00:30:03,886 --> 00:30:06,847
So, you believe
that this corporal punishment,

613
00:30:06,931 --> 00:30:09,683
this method of discipline
worked for you, right?

614
00:30:09,767 --> 00:30:12,686
Yes. My father
would use corporal punishment.

615
00:30:12,770 --> 00:30:17,107
He would spank me with a belt
and I turned out just fine.

616
00:30:17,191 --> 00:30:20,277
When you say you turned out just fine,
you're a successful diplomat, right?

617
00:30:20,361 --> 00:30:22,321
-Yes.
-But you're also a man

618
00:30:22,404 --> 00:30:23,822
who beats his own children, aren't you?

619
00:30:23,906 --> 00:30:25,908
-I discipline my children.
-Step back, counselor.

620
00:30:25,991 --> 00:30:30,496
You're also a man whose own kid
would rather jump out of a moving car

621
00:30:30,579 --> 00:30:32,498
than come back and live with you, right?

622
00:30:32,581 --> 00:30:36,293
I have never seen my son jump out of a car
and I do not believe this behavior.

623
00:30:36,377 --> 00:30:43,133
Now, as somebody who has
only spanked his son

624
00:30:43,217 --> 00:30:47,805
over a clothed behind with a belt.
Your Honor, can I please approach?

625
00:30:47,888 --> 00:30:49,139
Absolutely.

626
00:30:49,223 --> 00:30:53,018
Can you tell me, Mr. Karamba,
how your son got those?

627
00:30:53,102 --> 00:30:55,104
[tense music]

628
00:31:00,734 --> 00:31:03,737
At this time, I would like to invoke
my diplomatic immunity.

629
00:31:03,821 --> 00:31:05,114
[Judy]
Counselor?

630
00:31:05,197 --> 00:31:08,617
Your Honor, I believe he has a right to
do that at any stage of the proceedings.

631
00:31:08,701 --> 00:31:11,579
Well, Mr. Bakman, he does have that right.

632
00:31:11,662 --> 00:31:14,456
He chose to waive that right
when you called him as a witness.

633
00:31:14,540 --> 00:31:18,085
If he now chooses,
as a result of evidence that he has seen,

634
00:31:18,168 --> 00:31:22,715
to invoke his right, that's fine, but
I'm going to strike his entire testimony.

635
00:31:22,798 --> 00:31:26,343
In that case, Your Honor,
I'd like to ask for a five minute recess.

636
00:31:26,427 --> 00:31:28,637
Allow me sufficient time
to talk to my client.

637
00:31:28,721 --> 00:31:30,598
-Absolutely.
-[Bakman] Thank you.

638
00:31:30,681 --> 00:31:32,308
[pensive music]

639
00:31:32,391 --> 00:31:34,893
Let me explain what just happened here.

640
00:31:34,977 --> 00:31:39,481
Floyd Karamba declined to answer
certain questions on cross-examination,

641
00:31:39,565 --> 00:31:42,484
invoking diplomatic immunity.

642
00:31:42,568 --> 00:31:45,154
But the law doesn't allow you
to pick and choose

643
00:31:45,237 --> 00:31:47,781
what questions you will
and will not answer.

644
00:31:47,865 --> 00:31:53,746
If he decides to invoke diplomatic status,
his entire testimony would be stricken.

645
00:31:53,829 --> 00:31:55,497
Let's see what he decides.

646
00:31:56,707 --> 00:31:57,750
Counselor?

647
00:31:57,833 --> 00:32:00,127
Your Honor, I've spoken to my client
at this point.

648
00:32:00,210 --> 00:32:03,088
He advises me
out of the love for his children,

649
00:32:03,172 --> 00:32:05,257
and the fact that he wants his son back,

650
00:32:05,341 --> 00:32:10,429
he is waiving his diplomatic status
so that he can get his child back.

651
00:32:10,512 --> 00:32:13,599
Fine. Mr. Mentzer,
you want to ask your question again?

652
00:32:13,682 --> 00:32:15,809
-Yes. You've seen the picture?
-[Floyd] I have.

653
00:32:15,893 --> 00:32:18,812
I ask you again, Mr. Karamba,
how did Terrence get those whip marks?

654
00:32:18,896 --> 00:32:22,608
What happens in my house
stays in my house.

655
00:32:22,691 --> 00:32:24,276
Are you now owning up to what you did?

656
00:32:24,360 --> 00:32:27,529
What happens in my house
stays in my house!

657
00:32:27,613 --> 00:32:28,906
You did whip that boy!

658
00:32:28,989 --> 00:32:32,326
Sir, what happens in my house
stays in my house!

659
00:32:32,409 --> 00:32:34,536
Terrence wasn't lying, you are!

660
00:32:34,620 --> 00:32:36,580
Objection, argumentative.

661
00:32:36,664 --> 00:32:40,876
The last part is stricken. All right.
Mr. Karamba, you can take a seat.

662
00:32:43,962 --> 00:32:46,757
Mr. Mentzer, would you like to make
a closing argument, sir?

663
00:32:46,840 --> 00:32:48,175
Thank you, Your Honor.

664
00:32:48,258 --> 00:32:52,513
The reality here is there really is
no dispute over what happened.

665
00:32:52,596 --> 00:32:54,932
This man, Floyd Karamba,
battered his child,

666
00:32:55,015 --> 00:32:58,769
he abused his child,
he placed his child's life in danger.

667
00:32:58,852 --> 00:33:04,024
His health and safety are in jeopardy
were he to be sent back to Zimbabwe.

668
00:33:04,108 --> 00:33:05,442
And the State Department knows this.

669
00:33:05,526 --> 00:33:10,114
Yet, the State Department would rather
maintain their cozy relationship

670
00:33:10,197 --> 00:33:15,744
with the country of Zimbabwe by
not even asking for a waiver of immunity.

671
00:33:15,828 --> 00:33:20,290
That's all we're asking here for,
is for them to start doing their job

672
00:33:20,374 --> 00:33:24,128
and ask Zimbabwe
for a waiver of immunity here

673
00:33:24,211 --> 00:33:27,172
so that this man can be prosecuted,
and more importantly,

674
00:33:27,256 --> 00:33:29,383
that this child can be protected.

675
00:33:29,466 --> 00:33:32,177
Because if he's sent back,
his life will be in danger.

676
00:33:32,261 --> 00:33:33,303
Thank you, Your Honor.

677
00:33:33,387 --> 00:33:35,347
[Judy]
Thank you. Mr. Bakman?

678
00:33:35,431 --> 00:33:40,144
Quite frankly, Judge,
I find counsel's argument offensive.

679
00:33:40,227 --> 00:33:42,730
The implications are
that the State Department

680
00:33:42,813 --> 00:33:47,818
does not want to protect this child.
That couldn't be further from the truth.

681
00:33:47,901 --> 00:33:51,613
The State Department
wants this child protected.

682
00:33:51,697 --> 00:33:57,911
Just not on U.S. soil. The protection
has to come from the sending state.

683
00:33:57,995 --> 00:34:02,249
That's Federal law
and because of Separation of Powers.

684
00:34:02,332 --> 00:34:09,339
As callous as it may sound, protection
for this child must take place in Zimbabwe

685
00:34:09,423 --> 00:34:12,509
given their demand for the child's return.

686
00:34:12,593 --> 00:34:16,346
This court is divested of jurisdiction.
Submitted.

687
00:34:17,431 --> 00:34:20,684
The scope of this hearing is a limited one
to determine whether or not

688
00:34:20,768 --> 00:34:25,397
the immediate future of this child's life
would be at risk of further abuse,

689
00:34:25,481 --> 00:34:29,318
either physical or psychological,
if he were returned home.

690
00:34:29,401 --> 00:34:32,446
It seems to me that this country
has failed this child.

691
00:34:32,529 --> 00:34:33,864
Not once, but twice.

692
00:34:33,947 --> 00:34:37,075
The city of New York
failed the child on December first.

693
00:34:37,159 --> 00:34:40,078
There were visible signs of abuse.

694
00:34:40,162 --> 00:34:44,917
And rather than doing a full evaluation
of the child in the nurse's office,

695
00:34:45,000 --> 00:34:49,087
the nurse, the social worker in school,
and the teacher

696
00:34:49,171 --> 00:34:53,550
chose to bring father in,
without examining the child further,

697
00:34:53,634 --> 00:34:56,428
which would have shown clearly

698
00:34:56,512 --> 00:35:00,516
a pattern of consistent abuse
over a long period of time.

699
00:35:00,599 --> 00:35:04,353
Because those scars,
some are fresh, some are old.

700
00:35:04,436 --> 00:35:06,647
They were certainly there
on December first.

701
00:35:06,730 --> 00:35:10,567
Failure number one of
a governmental agency towards this child.

702
00:35:10,651 --> 00:35:15,948
Some ten days later, the child
was in fact beaten again by his father,

703
00:35:16,031 --> 00:35:20,494
who for all intents and purposes
acknowledges that in his outburst here

704
00:35:20,577 --> 00:35:23,789
because he considers
whatever happens in his home

705
00:35:23,872 --> 00:35:26,959
inviolate from inspection of authority.

706
00:35:27,042 --> 00:35:29,503
The government
of the United States of America

707
00:35:29,586 --> 00:35:34,675
has the obligation, in my view,
to at least attempt

708
00:35:34,758 --> 00:35:37,469
to reach out
to the government of Zimbabwe,

709
00:35:37,553 --> 00:35:40,347
show their representative
these photographs

710
00:35:40,430 --> 00:35:45,978
and say, we would like some time to ensure
that the child, if returned, is safe.

711
00:35:46,061 --> 00:35:49,189
The government of the United States
chose not to do that.

712
00:35:49,273 --> 00:35:53,068
Two failures. I think that it is
the responsibility of the government

713
00:35:53,151 --> 00:35:55,362
to do exactly what
Mr. Mentzer is requesting,

714
00:35:55,445 --> 00:35:58,907
which is to ask the sending state,
and that is Zimbabwe,

715
00:35:58,991 --> 00:36:02,619
to take a fresh look at these fresh welts.
In the interim,

716
00:36:02,703 --> 00:36:06,498
I find that the child is in fact at risk
of being further abused and neglected.

717
00:36:06,582 --> 00:36:09,960
We will pick a trial date for a full trial
on this date.

718
00:36:10,043 --> 00:36:14,631
Until that time, the child remand
to Child Protective Services is continued.

719
00:36:16,675 --> 00:36:20,721
Well, believe it or not,
my ruling caused a bit of a firestorm

720
00:36:20,804 --> 00:36:23,807
when I continued the child
in protective custody.

721
00:36:23,891 --> 00:36:27,394
The United States State Department
immediately appealed

722
00:36:27,477 --> 00:36:30,063
and the case was heard in federal court.

723
00:36:30,147 --> 00:36:32,316
This time, the key legal concept

724
00:36:32,399 --> 00:36:35,152
was called the Supremacy Clause
of the Constitution

725
00:36:35,235 --> 00:36:40,240
which establishes that federal laws and
treaties made under federal authority

726
00:36:40,324 --> 00:36:43,619
supercede any laws made by a state,

727
00:36:43,702 --> 00:36:48,290
and state courts must defer to those
federal laws and treaties.

728
00:36:48,373 --> 00:36:50,709
But the question for me remained:

729
00:36:50,792 --> 00:36:56,798
What about the issue of a little boy who
everyone now admitted had been abused?

730
00:36:56,882 --> 00:36:58,884
Here's how it went.

731
00:36:59,968 --> 00:37:01,970
Counsel, note your appearances.

732
00:37:02,054 --> 00:37:04,056
Good morning, Your Honors.
Larry Bakman on behalf

733
00:37:04,139 --> 00:37:07,142
of the government representing
the United States Department of State.

734
00:37:07,225 --> 00:37:09,686
Good morning.
For the Respondent Terrence Karamba

735
00:37:09,770 --> 00:37:11,647
and the city of New York, I'm Dan Mentzer.

736
00:37:11,730 --> 00:37:14,858
Mr. Bakman, you may proceed
with your opening statement.

737
00:37:14,942 --> 00:37:20,155
Thank you, Your Honors.
Floyd Karamba is a diplomatic envoy

738
00:37:20,238 --> 00:37:22,282
from the nation of Zimbabwe.

739
00:37:22,366 --> 00:37:26,453
As such, he has
absolute diplomatic immunity,

740
00:37:26,536 --> 00:37:31,500
precluding him from being either
criminally charged or civilly charged.

741
00:37:31,583 --> 00:37:37,923
And the Supremacy Clause
prevents the state or the city of New York

742
00:37:38,006 --> 00:37:41,802
from attempting to dictate
in foreign policy.

743
00:37:41,885 --> 00:37:47,933
And the only entity
that can waive diplomatic immunity

744
00:37:48,016 --> 00:37:51,895
is the sending country,
the nation of Zimbabwe.

745
00:37:51,979 --> 00:37:58,068
And because they refuse to do that,
there is no waiver of immunity,

746
00:37:58,151 --> 00:38:01,863
and Floyd Karamba and
his child Terrence Karamba

747
00:38:01,947 --> 00:38:05,701
are not subject of the city of New York.
Thank you.

748
00:38:05,784 --> 00:38:08,537
[Adam] Thank you, Mr. Bakman.
Mr. Mentzer, please.

749
00:38:08,620 --> 00:38:10,288
[Mentzer]
Thank you, Judge.

750
00:38:10,372 --> 00:38:13,583
If you give the State Department
what they're asking for,

751
00:38:13,667 --> 00:38:16,795
and send Terrence Karamba
back to Zimbabwe,

752
00:38:16,878 --> 00:38:18,588
his life will be in danger

753
00:38:18,672 --> 00:38:23,385
because Floyd Karamba
doesn't think he did anything wrong.

754
00:38:23,468 --> 00:38:28,890
So, what we want this court to do
is to compel the State Department

755
00:38:28,974 --> 00:38:33,020
to do what they haven't done yet,
and that is to ask Zimbabwe

756
00:38:33,103 --> 00:38:37,566
for a waiver of immunity
so that we can prosecute Floyd Karamba

757
00:38:37,649 --> 00:38:40,861
for what he's done to his son.
And more importantly,

758
00:38:40,944 --> 00:38:45,907
with a waiver of immunity,
Terrence Karamba will continue to receive

759
00:38:45,991 --> 00:38:50,579
the therapy he so desperately needs.
Thank you.

760
00:38:50,662 --> 00:38:51,830
Thank you, Mr. Mentzer.

761
00:38:51,913 --> 00:38:54,416
We will now recess to deliberate.

762
00:38:57,044 --> 00:38:59,755
We are not a unanimous court.

763
00:38:59,838 --> 00:39:02,424
Judge DiMango and I are in the majority.

764
00:39:02,507 --> 00:39:05,719
And Judge DiMango will present
the majority opinion.

765
00:39:05,802 --> 00:39:09,264
And Judge Acker will then give
the dissent.

766
00:39:09,347 --> 00:39:12,976
The essence of this appeal
involves the issue of diplomatic immunity

767
00:39:13,060 --> 00:39:15,896
as it pertains
to child protective proceedings

768
00:39:15,979 --> 00:39:18,065
conducted pursuant
to the Family Court Act.

769
00:39:18,148 --> 00:39:21,151
The alleged abuse suffered
by the child Terrence

770
00:39:21,234 --> 00:39:24,154
at the hands of his father
in the name of discipline

771
00:39:24,237 --> 00:39:27,407
indeed offends
even the hardest of sensibilities.

772
00:39:27,491 --> 00:39:29,910
But the question presented here is,

773
00:39:29,993 --> 00:39:34,539
did the Family Court have the authority
to exercise jurisdiction

774
00:39:34,623 --> 00:39:38,877
over the parties to hear the case
and to reach a decision

775
00:39:38,960 --> 00:39:42,672
on the merits in light of the assertions
of diplomatic immunity

776
00:39:42,756 --> 00:39:47,219
by both the United States and
the sending state, Zimbabwe.

777
00:39:47,302 --> 00:39:51,014
The answer to the question is
a resounding no.

778
00:39:51,098 --> 00:39:55,393
Diplomatic immunity is considered
the cornerstone of diplomacy.

779
00:39:55,477 --> 00:39:58,522
It is intended to protect the diplomat
and their families

780
00:39:58,605 --> 00:40:02,317
from the service of civil process,
criminal prosecution

781
00:40:02,400 --> 00:40:04,694
and the jurisdiction of the courts

782
00:40:04,778 --> 00:40:07,864
of the foreign states
of which they are stationed.

783
00:40:07,948 --> 00:40:11,034
Were we to affirm the decision
of the Family Court,

784
00:40:11,118 --> 00:40:14,996
our decision could be viewed as condoning
this misapplication of the law.

785
00:40:15,080 --> 00:40:17,290
And so, based upon the foregoing reasons,

786
00:40:17,374 --> 00:40:23,171
it is with a heavy heart that
the lower court's decision is reversed.

787
00:40:25,048 --> 00:40:28,135
My colleagues are right
to point out the importance

788
00:40:28,218 --> 00:40:32,180
of the doctrine of diplomatic immunity,
and how critical that doctrine is

789
00:40:32,264 --> 00:40:36,434
to our diplomatic services and
international interests around the world.

790
00:40:36,518 --> 00:40:39,771
But they make a false
and unnecessary choice.

791
00:40:39,855 --> 00:40:43,066
The City's request won't compromise
our diplomats.

792
00:40:43,150 --> 00:40:45,652
The City simply seeks a stay

793
00:40:45,735 --> 00:40:49,406
so that all of the various interests
at stake here may be heard.

794
00:40:49,489 --> 00:40:52,826
Diplomats and their families
have a right to immunity,

795
00:40:52,909 --> 00:40:56,997
but diplomats and their families
also have a right to asylum,

796
00:40:57,080 --> 00:41:00,834
and to have those claims
fairly and properly adjudicated.

797
00:41:00,917 --> 00:41:04,880
That is the law too.
Here, in this country,

798
00:41:04,963 --> 00:41:09,759
a child endures this,
and we can't maintain a simple stay

799
00:41:09,843 --> 00:41:12,345
that would permit him
to complete a request for help?

800
00:41:12,429 --> 00:41:16,600
And to satisfy the legal requirements
of properly hearing an asylum claim?

801
00:41:16,683 --> 00:41:20,312
If the State Department's commitment
to human rights is to mean anything,

802
00:41:20,395 --> 00:41:23,565
if it cares to send a message
that this will not be tolerated

803
00:41:23,648 --> 00:41:25,442
in these United States,

804
00:41:25,525 --> 00:41:30,238
it has the duty to try
to bring this abuser to justice.

805
00:41:30,322 --> 00:41:34,576
It has the duty to ask.
I respectfully dissent.

806
00:41:37,120 --> 00:41:40,498
Terrence Karamba was removed from his
foster home and returned to Zimbabwe

807
00:41:40,582 --> 00:41:43,126
to live with his family.

808
00:41:43,210 --> 00:41:49,257
His father, Floyd Karamba was never
prosecuted for child abuse.

809
00:41:49,341 --> 00:41:54,304
How could our government place this child
in harm's way without protection?

810
00:41:54,387 --> 00:41:58,433
Even though Terrence Karamba
was ultimately sent back to Zimbabwe,

811
00:41:58,516 --> 00:42:03,063
my ruling, which was to have the child
remain in protective custody,

812
00:42:03,146 --> 00:42:07,234
caused the case to delay as it
wound its way through the court system.

813
00:42:07,317 --> 00:42:10,612
This enabled certain safeguards
to be put in place

814
00:42:10,695 --> 00:42:14,616
for the child's protection when
he was ultimately returned to his family.

815
00:42:14,699 --> 00:42:20,538
The complex issue of diplomatic immunity
continues to plague the justice system.

816
00:42:20,622 --> 00:42:24,501
Every year, it seems,
a new case of a diplomat

817
00:42:24,584 --> 00:42:28,713
committing a horrendous crime
is protected by diplomatic immunity.

818
00:42:28,797 --> 00:42:34,010
Sometimes, the rule of law,
when you factor in common sense,

819
00:42:34,094 --> 00:42:37,973
just doesn't equal justice.

820
00:42:38,056 --> 00:42:41,518
JUDGE JUDY PRESENTS
JUSTICE ON TRIAL

821
00:42:41,601 --> 00:42:43,812
[sinister orchestral music]
ON TRIAL